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  1. #21811
    Earthling Earthling is offline
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    The kind of mythical garbage skeptical seance likes to print:

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  2. #21812
    Earthling Earthling is offline
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    Ocean-Heat-Content-Based Model By German Scientists Shows Continued Global Cooling Ahead

    A Look At Global Mean Temperatures in 2013: Cooling Ahead!
    By Fritz Vahrenholt, Frank Bosse
    (Translated with permission by P Gosselin)
    “Global Warming Is Taking A Break“ – that was the title of an article at the online Hamburger Abendblatt on 4 January 2013. And that’s hard to miss when you look at the latest global temperature chart:

    Red and green: temperature; blue: CO2.
    This of course demands an explanation, which is provided by Jochem Marotzke, Director of the Max Planck Institute for Meteorology in Hamburg: It’s because of ocean currents, and this is indeed included in IPCC models. But something is wrong, and also Marotzke can’t get around it when he tried to explain the temperature stagnation in the interview with the Abendblatt:
    “In such periods, the heat is taken in more strongly by the deep oceans. We still cannot explain why this is so.” Scientists have reason to suspect that heat is taken from the surface to the bottom in the southern oceans.“
    The circulation in the world’s oceans is ...
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  3. #21813
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Case View Post
    The IPCC's AR4 told us in Chapter five that the oceans warmed 0.1°C
    over a forty year stretch. Oh my! And after Dr. Josh Willis "Corrected"
    the ARGO float data the oceans are now showing warming.

    OK, let's say the oceans are a tenth of a degree warmer than they were
    in 1960. How much is that tenth of a degree going to warm things up?
    No more than a tenth of a degree, that's how much.
    In the end, Steve, temperature is just an indicator of the energy distribution of the constituent molecules of matter. It is the energy that counts, and a 0.1C+ rise in the vast, cool, liquid oceans represents a hell of a lot of energy absorbed .. energy that will come back to haunt us.



    But you are not the only one who can make Excel charts.



    BTW, your iteration of "They're lying!" every time you are refuted is quite pathetic. Not a very scientific rebuttal, don't you think? But science is not your strong suit, given you think they are all plotting against the American Way of Life.

    http://data.nodc.noaa.gov/woa/DATA_A...h_seasonal.csv
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  4. #21814
    Agnotologist Agnotologist is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    Try something less "easy" for a change.
    Sorry, earthworm. Nowhere in the scientific literature are things dumbed down enough for you. You just might find something at Watts or Climateaudit - if you can sort out fact from fiction.
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  5. #21815
    Agnotologist Agnotologist is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
    Ocean-Heat-Content-Based Model By German Scientists Shows Continued Global Cooling Ahead

    A Look At Global Mean Temperatures in 2013: Cooling Ahead!
    By Fritz Vahrenholt, Frank Bosse
    (Translated with permission by P Gosselin)
    “Global Warming Is Taking A Break“ – that was the title of an article at the online Hamburger Abendblatt on 4 January 2013. And that’s hard to miss when you look at the latest global temperature chart:

    Red and green: temperature; blue: CO2.
    This of course demands an explanation, which is provided by Jochem Marotzke, Director of the Max Planck Institute for Meteorology in Hamburg: It’s because of ocean currents, and this is indeed included in IPCC models. But something is wrong, and also Marotzke can’t get around it when he tried to explain the temperature stagnation in the interview with the Abendblatt:
    “In such periods, the heat is taken in more strongly by the deep oceans. We still cannot explain why this is so.” Scientists have reason to suspect that heat is taken from the surface to the bottom in the southern oceans.“
    The circulation in the world’s oceans is ...
    Have you forgotten already, earthworm, that they are not scientists? You have been shown that a couple of times. And dredging something from Gosselin is getting almost as low in the barrel as it is possible to reach.

    Their lying about Marotzky does not help their paper thin case.
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  6. #21816
    SirCharles SirCharles is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    In the end, Steve, temperature is just an indicator of the energy distribution of the constituent molecules of matter. It is the energy that counts, and a 0.1C+ rise in the vast, cool, liquid oceans represents a hell of a lot of energy absorbed .. energy that will come back to haunt us.



    But you are not the only one who can make Excel charts.



    BTW, your iteration of "They're lying!" every time you are refuted is quite pathetic. Not a very scientific rebuttal, don't you think? But science is not your strong suit, given you think they are all plotting against the American Way of Life.

    http://data.nodc.noaa.gov/woa/DATA_A...h_seasonal.csv

    "Water has many interesting and unique properties. One of these is a very high specific heat. The only known substance with a higher specific heat is ammonia. This is largely the result of strong attractive forces between molecules, known as hydrogen bonding. At room temperature the specific heat of water is 4.1813 JgK, and air is 1.012 JgK. This about 4.13 higher. Since we saw that specific heat is multiplied by mass, and the mass is also much higher for the same volume, we can look at the combined specific heat times mass of water vs air. This combined product is about 3366 times higher for water than for air." [*]
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  7. #21817
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnotologist View Post
    Have you forgotten already, earthworm, that they are not scientists? You have been shown that a couple of times. And dredging something from Gosselin is getting almost as low in the barrel as it is possible to reach.

    Their lying about Marotzky does not help their paper thin case.
    My god, it is wierd to see deniers still pushing that ould shyte by Vahrenholt and his buddy.

    A tired Australian journalist, just tired of the pure BS he was being sent by deniers sent a reply to one of them who had sent him a lengthy report. It is worth keeping to use again and again.

    In considering your request that I identify errors in the report you sent to me – CSIROh! Climate of Deception? Or First Step to Freedom? – I find myself confronting an unusual problem: how does one critically analyse a pile of horse ************************?
    You can find it in full here: Climate change, the New World Order and spam-weary journalists « Graham Readfearn
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  8. #21818
    SirCharles SirCharles is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnotologist View Post
    Have you forgotten already, earthworm, that they are not scientists? You have been shown that a couple of times. And dredging something from Gosselin is getting almost as low in the barrel as it is possible to reach.

    Their lying about Marotzky does not help their paper thin case.
    And the Hamburger Abendblatt seems to be their scientific journal with peer-review...
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  9. #21819
    Agnotologist Agnotologist is offline

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    Here, steve, you can download all the data ( you probably know about it). They even invite you to tell them what you think.

    Why not do so?

    Met Office Hadley Centre observations datasets
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  10. #21820
    Steve Case Steve Case is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    In the end, Steve, temperature is just an indicator of the energy
    distribution of the constituent molecules of matter.
    Thanks for the dictionary definition

    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    It is the energy that counts, and a 0.1C+ rise in the vast, cool,
    liquid oceans represents a hell of a lot of energy absorbed .. energy
    that will come back to haunt us.
    Exactly how is it going to haunt us? I pointed out that it won't be
    temperature since a 0.1°C warmer ocean isn't going to warm anything
    up more than 0.1°C.

    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    Different colored circles, how nice

    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    But you are not the only one who can make Excel charts.
    I didn't think I was.

    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    On the left side of your graph you've got increments of 0.02 and on
    the right side you show increments of 0.2. You don't say what they
    represent, I'll go out on a limb here and guess it's degrees Celsius.
    So you 've mismatched the "Y" axis temperatures by a around an order
    of magnitude and you hoped I wouldn't notice right?

    Well, be that as it may, nice of you to imply that the sea surface
    temperature is the same as ocean heating shown in your SkepticalScience
    graphic. It isn't, and since I brought up dictionary definitions here's one
    for Sea Surface Temperature (SST):

    Sea surface temperature (SST) is the water temperature close to the
    ocean's surface. The exact meaning of surface varies according to the
    measurement method used, but it is between 1 millimetre (0.04 in) and
    20 metres (70 ft) below the sea surface. Air masses in the Earth's
    atmosphere are highly modified by sea surface
    Sea surface temperature - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    But I've made graphics of that too, here's one I made several years
    ago showing the relationship between sea surface mean temperature and
    land surface mean temperature



    The first thing you should notice is like you I used a right and left
    scale to compare the two, but unlike you I made the increments the same
    and I made the effort to label them. A ways back you talked about how
    my efforts wouldn't get a "C" in High School. I was a high School Science
    teacher a long time ago, and I wouldn't flunk you but you would loose
    many points for not bothering to label your axis and not making them
    match. But I digress.

    The trend for the Land Surface Mean Temperature is about 0.25°C greater
    than the Sea Surface. I think that is probably the signal from CO2's
    green house effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    BTW, your iteration of "They're lying!" every time you are refuted
    is quite pathetic. Not a very scientific rebuttal, don't you think? But
    science is not your strong suit, given you think they are all plotting
    against the American Way of Life.
    What they are doing is chasing after grant money by providing answers that
    the holders of those purse strings want to hear.


    That looks like 3M HEAT CONTENT and not ocean heating all the way to the
    bottom. And from your mislabeled graph above it looks like around 0.13°C of
    warming since 1955. Same ball park as the IPCC's AR4 Chapter five
    statement:

    "The oceans are warming. Over the period 1961 to 2003, global
    ocean temperature has risen by 0.10°C from the surface to a depth of 700 m."

    Executive Summary - AR4 WGI Chapter 5: Observations: Oceanic Climate Change and Sea Level

    One tenth of a degree can't warm anything more than one tenth of a degree.
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