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  1. #16591
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Scientific American points out the dangers anti-scientism to American democracy.

    It is hard to know exactly when it became acceptable for U.S. politicians to be antiscience. For some two centuries science was a preeminent force in American politics, and scientific innovation has been the leading driver of U.S. economic growth since World War II...

    The Founding Fathers were science enthusiasts.

    Yet despite its history and today's unprecedented riches from science, the U.S. has begun to slip off of its science foundation. Indeed, in this election cycle, some 236 years after Jefferson penned the Declaration of Independence, several major party contenders for political office took positions that can only be described as “antiscience”: against evolution, human-induced climate change, vaccines, stem cell research, and more. A former Republican governor even warned that his own political party was in danger of becoming “the antiscience party.”
    IMHO, the rot set set in when Ronald Reagan announced he supported teh teaching of creationism in schools. In doing so, he gave Republicans permission to be actively anti science advocates.

    Asked if he personally accepted the theory of evolution, Reagan replied: "I have a great many questions about it. I think that recent discoveries down through the years have pointed up great flaws in it" (Science, 1980, p. 1214).
    Antiscience Beliefs Jeopardize U.S. Democracy: Scientific American
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  2. #16592
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    Medieval Warm Period?

    Twentieth-century warming revives the world’s northernmost lake

    Bianca B. Perren1,
    Alexander P. Wolfe2,
    Colin A. Cooke3,
    Kurt H. Kjr4,
    David Mazzucchi5 and
    Eric J. Steig6



    Although recent ecological changes are widespread in Arctic lakes, it remains unclear whether they are more strongly associated with climate warming or the deposition of reactive nitrogen (Nr) from anthropogenic sources. We developed a 3500-yr paleolimnological record from the world’s northernmost lake to explore this question. Microfossils indicate that siliceous diatoms and chrysophytes were abundant initially, but disappeared 2400 yr ago in concert with Neoglacial cooling. Microfossils reappear in 20th-century sediments and reach unprecedented concentrations in sediments deposited after ca. A.D. 1980, tracking increasing summer temperatures in the absence of evidence for atmospheric nutrient subsidies. These results indicate that current warming in northern Greenland is unprecedented in the context of the past 2400 yr, and that climate change alone is responsible for the marked biological changes observed.

    Twentieth-century warming revives the world
    In the same edition of Geology, a team make an identical finding from a lake in Svalbard.

    Mild Little Ice Age and unprecedented recent warmth in an 1800 year lake sediment record from Svalbard

    William J. D’Andrea1,*,
    David A. Vaillencourt1,
    Nicholas L. Balascio1,
    Al Werner2,
    Steven R. Roof3,
    Michael Retelle4 and
    Raymond S. Bradley1


    Abstract

    The Arctic region is subject to a great amplitude of climate variability and is currently undergoing large-scale changes due in part to anthropogenic global warming. Accurate projections of future change depend on anticipating the response of the Arctic climate system to forcing, and understanding how the response to human forcing will interact with natural climate variations. The Svalbard Archipelago occupies an important location for studying patterns and causes of Arctic climate variability; however, available paleoclimate records from Svalbard are of restricted use due to limitations of existing climate proxies. Here we present a sub-decadal- to multidecadal-scale record of summer temperature for the past 1800 yr from lake sediments of Kongressvatnet on West Spitsbergen, Svalbard, based on the first instrumental calibration of the alkenone paleothermometer. The age model for the High Arctic lake sediments is based on 210Pb, plutonium activity, and the first application of tephrochronology to lake sediments in this region. We find that the summer warmth of the past 50 yr recorded in both the instrumental and alkenone records was unmatched in West Spitsbergen in the course of the past 1800 yr, including during the Medieval Climate Anomaly, and that summers during the Little Ice Age (LIA) of the 18th and 19th centuries on Svalbard were not particularly cold, even though glaciers occupied their maximum Holocene extent. Our results suggest that increased wintertime precipitation, rather than cold temperatures, was responsible for LIA glaciations on Svalbard and that increased heat transport into the Arctic via the West Spitsbergen Current began ca. A.D. 1600.
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  3. #16593
    Steve Case Steve Case is offline
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    High latitude lakes coming back to life, a catastrophic disaster if ever there was one.
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  4. #16594
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Case View Post
    High latitude lakes coming back to life, a catastrophic disaster if ever there was one.
    As has been often pointed out to you, high latitudes will gain from climate change, and that is expected. It is the lower latitudes that will suffer - the tropics, sub-tropics (e.g. Bangla Desh), the Mediterranean coast, the SW USA.
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  5. #16595
    Steve Case Steve Case is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    As has been often pointed out to you, high latitudes will gain from climate change, and that is expected. It is the lower latitudes that will suffer - the tropics, sub-tropics (e.g. Bangla Desh), the Mediterranean coast, the SW USA.
    And I will point out to you:

    1. The IPCC tells us that most of the warming will be at night, in the winter and in the Arctic.

    2. The IPCC tells us that in a warmer world there will be more rain.

    3. If the models were correct about CO2's climate sensitivity, temperatures should be a lot warmer than they are.

    So the lower latitudes aren't suffering and there's no evidence that they will. Sea levels aren't rising like you guys claim, the droughts you guys fret over aren't happening.
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  6. #16596
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Case View Post
    And I will point out to you:

    1. The IPCC tells us that most of the warming will be at night, in the winter and in the Arctic.

    2. The IPCC tells us that in a warmer world there will be more rain.

    3. If the models were correct about CO2's climate sensitivity, temperatures should be a lot warmer than they are.

    So the lower latitudes aren't suffering and there's no evidence that they will. Sea levels aren't rising like you guys claim, the droughts you guys fret over aren't happening.
    Can you supply references for those assertions/ opinions? I am not sure if the IPCC says that, exactly.

    This post suggests you need better evidence for number 3: Carbon Dioxide and Temperature | Climate Abyss | a Chron.com blog

    I never said the lower latitudes were suffering, I say they inevitably will. But some countries do see the effects of climate change already. How Bangladesh Is Preparing for Climate Change: Scientific American

    And the world is looking forward to another years of Mother Nature's bounty: UN warns of looming worldwide food crisis in 2013 | Global development | The Observer

    I already posted Professor J. Nielsen-Gammon on the Texas Drought and your refutation was that he used the word "drought" too often. A real knockdown argument, Steve, thousands will be convinced by it.

    As for sea level rise, I am afraid your few charts are totally unconvincing. Try these instead:

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  7. #16597
    Pep4321 Pep4321 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCharles View Post
    Lubbock, Texas: In light of the dramatic extremes of the last two years... Where are we now in terms of climate, and what is the current research showing us?

    Dr. Katharine Hayhoe on the "New Normal":


    hahahahahahahahaha Katharine Hayhoe: ,the Evangelical creationist professor, you are desperate these days, this woman just loves fairtytales, lust ask her husband "Pastor Hayhoe" he will tell you all about it.........
    You certainly wont catch her talking about the Roman warming period since she belives the earth was even around back then......
    Last edited by Pep4321; 22nd October 2012 at 05:35 PM.
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  8. #16598
    Pep4321 Pep4321 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    Can you supply references for those assertions/ opinions? I am not sure if the IPCC says that, exactly.

    This post suggests you need better evidence for number 3: Carbon Dioxide and Temperature | Climate Abyss | a Chron.com blog

    I never said the lower latitudes were suffering, I say they inevitably will. But some countries do see the effects of climate change already. How Bangladesh Is Preparing for Climate Change: Scientific American

    And the world is looking forward to another years of Mother Nature's bounty: UN warns of looming worldwide food crisis in 2013 | Global development | The Observer

    I already posted Professor J. Nielsen-Gammon on the Texas Drought and your refutation was that he used the word "drought" too often. A real knockdown argument, Steve, thousands will be convinced by it.

    As for sea level rise, I am afraid your few charts are totally unconvincing. Try these instead:

    The old discredited hockey stick scary Doom porn graphs, Its not halloween yet you know........I notice theres not an Antarctic ice cover graph on there, how convenient...or is that not scary enough?
    Last edited by Pep4321; 22nd October 2012 at 05:21 PM.
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  9. #16599
    Pep4321 Pep4321 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    Can you supply references for those assertions/ opinions? I am not sure if the IPCC says that, exactly.

    This post suggests you need better evidence for number 3: Carbon Dioxide and Temperature | Climate Abyss | a Chron.com blog

    I never said the lower latitudes were suffering, I say they inevitably will. But some countries do see the effects of climate change already. How Bangladesh Is Preparing for Climate Change: Scientific American

    And the world is looking forward to another years of Mother Nature's bounty: UN warns of looming worldwide food crisis in 2013 | Global development | The Observer

    I already posted Professor J. Nielsen-Gammon on the Texas Drought and your refutation was that he used the word "drought" too often. A real knockdown argument, Steve, thousands will be convinced by it.

    As for sea level rise, I am afraid your few charts are totally unconvincing. Try these instead:






    Doom Porn Graph Vs Real Undoctered Graph, You can see the old hide the decline in full swing here, thanks to Mr Jim Henson and the NASA muppet show .........
    Last edited by Pep4321; 22nd October 2012 at 05:36 PM.
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  10. #16600
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pep4321 View Post
    hahahahahahahahaha Katharine Hayhoe: ,the Evangelical creationist professor, you are desperate these days, this woman just loves fairtytales, lust ask her husband "Pastor Hayhoe" he will tell you all about it.........
    Have you evidence that Profesor Hayhoe is a creationist? Please post it. I know she is an Evangelical Christian, and so is her husband. Shoe most certainly does not believe the earth is 6,000 years old, as that is incompatible with geology and climatology. Here is what she told one interviewer when asked about climate change:

    No sincere scientist who has looked at the data can claim that what we’re experiencing today resembles any natural cycle we have seen in the past.

    It’s interesting that some who believe in a young Earth (maybe 6,000-10,000 years old) are the same who argue that our current warming is part of a natural cycle. Both cannot possibly be true!

    First, if the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, there are no natural cycles that are even noteworthy. Therefore, to say this is just a natural cycle like we’ve seen in the past, we are committing to an old Earth, not a young Earth.

    But what if we are ok with the idea of an old Earth? Is this argument valid then?

    It’s true that past records indicate the Earth has passed through long ice ages, and warm interglacial periods, on times scales of hundreds of thousands of years. But even if we take those time scales into account, we still don’t see any conditions like what we are seeing today. Today, levels of heat-trapping gases in the atmosphere are “off the charts” in comparison with anything documented in the past. Natural cycles cannot explain our current warming.
    And, BTW, deniers arn't creationists? Ask Dr Roy Spencer and Dr John Christy .... two bright "stars" of denialism. And then there is the Cornwall Alliance which has Spencer and Christy as members, and which believes the Earth was given to us by God to fck around with as we please.

    Oddly enough, Christy, Spencer and the Alliance also push "conventional" energy sources, conventional meaning anything with fossil fuel in it, though they do not inform us where the Bible says that. The Eleventh Commandment, maybe?

    Cornwall Alliance :: For the Stewardship of Creation
    Last edited by owedtojoy; 22nd October 2012 at 05:35 PM.
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