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  1. #21
    Peppermint Peppermint is offline

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    And I reckon 'charge time' is going to become all important.
    EG Your car may be capable of being charged in 2 mins, but your charge provider may only allow your car to be charged within 15mins, pushing you into their shopping complex...
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  2. #22
    McTell McTell is offline
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    What seems important to me is X million electric cars on China's roads powered by coal fired juice is about as bad as X million cars powered by petrol.

    Coal having more carbon per gram and oil a shade less.
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  3. #23
    wombat wombat is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roll_On View Post
    The real saving in transport based emissions will be an increasingly urbanising population and improving public transport in urban areas. Electric cars will fill in the gaps. We'll need to go nuclear soon enough anyway, or buy French nuclear via an undersea cable and hope they always give us a good deal.
    Pretty much the way I see transport developing. I think hybrids will play a major role in country areas. Electric motors are a no brainer, far simpler and more efficient than ice's, the problem is that a battery is no replacement for a fuel tank.
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  4. #24
    Fr Peter McWhinger Fr Peter McWhinger is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher2 View Post
    I believe it's not so easy. I wish it was. I do believe that once they solve the battery capacity problem, electric will take off. Would be cool if you could pull into an outlet when your battery goes next to flat, take it out and replace it with a "full" battery.
    What makes you believe that physics will allow large amounts of energy to be stored using abundant materials at low cost, at high energy density?
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  5. #25
    Fr Peter McWhinger Fr Peter McWhinger is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by McTell View Post
    Read this the other day as I'm in the market for sparks-on-wheels.

    Elec is 20% better than petrol. Or, it takes 80% of the energy to make one. Over a "lifecycle".


    ' the same report estimated that over its whole lifecycle, the electric car would still be responsible for 80% of the emissions of the petrol car. "


    https://www.theguardian.com/football...-electric-cars


    Sounds like a great deal, biiiig tax savings for a kinda-half-dacent reduction in CO2. If you're seriously green, keep riding that bike.
    Electricity production from fossil fuels has large thermal conversion losses and substantial transmission losses.

    Generators on part load suffer degrading efficiency.
    EV Heads tend to count the inefficiencies of Internal Combustion Engines but discount the inefficiency of the thermal conversion process that generates electricity.

    EV Heads tend to compare the performance of EV cars with low efficiency Fossil fuel cars.
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  6. #26
    Watcher2 Watcher2 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPN View Post
    Most people do not need anywhere close to the range of a current EV for >90% of their normal driving.

    For those who do need a longer range then there are other options, such as Hybrids and plug in Hybrids.

    The ultimate "range extender" being a second car with a fossil fuel engine, but these can be hired on a daily basis.


    But ultimately, Climate Change Mitigation is going to require major changes in how we organise our transport.

    As I said above, think bicycles.
    How much have you read on this issue? It would appear not a lot. Range anxiety is not logical. It's well documented that the majority of journeys are only a fraction of the capable range, yet range anxiety still keeps people away from electric.

    I think bicycles for hobby. Won't work as the mass mode of transport, not here.
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  7. #27
    Watcher2 Watcher2 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peppermint View Post
    Every car has a range of how long it can go before it needs a "refill" of it's required energy source. Some gas guzzlers can barely make a 100miles before needing a refill, but they are special, most will make 500 plus, I can't find any table showing full tank to miles traveled? But I'm sure the evidence is out there some where?
    Anyhow the range of electric cars will be irrelevant, if they can get a refill, just like a petrol car..
    this is what I'm saying. If the batteries can be made smaller so they can be swapped out at a garage/station, electric will take off imv. As it stands, even if every petrol station had a charging station, it would still be problematic. Two cars in front of you could mean you being at the place for an hour to get a proper charge. Most literature says that e cars can get an 80% charge in 20 minutes. Add in going into and queueing in the shop to pay, you could be well over an hour for a "fill".
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  8. #28
    Watcher2 Watcher2 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malbekh View Post
    Battery life?



    So that's ~150,000km of driving guaranteed in 2017. By 2030 you will never have to replace your car, unless you choose to do so.
    But the battery is only guaranteed for 8 years. What happens then? How expensive and easy will it be to swap out the batteries? In 8 years time, batteries will likely be far different than they are today, which raises another question, how will the cars today be able take the new batteries of 8 years hence? I believe the batteries in today's e cars are multiple and large, taking up much of the space. I have my doubts about the value and usefulness of today's e cars in 8/10 years time. The tech is in its infancy.
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  9. #29
    Watcher2 Watcher2 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fr Peter McWhinger View Post
    What makes you believe that physics will allow large amounts of energy to be stored using abundant materials at low cost, at high energy density?
    Technology.
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  10. #30
    Fr Peter McWhinger Fr Peter McWhinger is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Watcher2 View Post
    Technology.
    What about the laws of physics like the first and second laws of thermodynamics?
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