The subject of alleged man made climate change, wind energy, solar energy has been well discussed in the Media and on Politics.ie since 2010. I always claimed that the first mistake was the failure to assess the government plan for it and that there was a major flaw in how renewable energy's contribution was calculated. Energy is useless, we need power, not energy. Renewables don't produce power. Others (particularly those with leftist leaning views) thought otherwise. However, there was a most generous subsidy regime put in place which paid for energy, which together with other incentives lured investors. Notwithstanding these long term incentives, there were a number of serious flaws which were most evident in the case of industrial wind energy. The wind industry was driven by policy makers, not engineers.

The biggest flaw was that the load factor (actual output compared to potential output) was based on Eirgrid's Generation Adequacy Report 2010 - 2016 which claimed the wind blew at 33 MPH for 34% of the time. My immediate reaction was that this was false so I measured wind speed in 2008 and 2009 to find the real figure was 24.1% on high ground, but as low as 20% in Midland locations. Even at the high figure, income turned out to be only 70% of expectations, few businesses have a profit of 30%, there are costs. The business model of Mainstream Renewable Power was to obtain planning permission, construct the wind farms and connecting cables and sell as soon as possible. This showed no long term commitment, a warning sign. It worked once, would it work again?

Gaelectric raised debt of around a quarter of a billion euros building wind farms. They needed to sell this debt and they needed to acquire capital to continue in business. There were no takers at home and the political climate was changing faster than the real climate with Brexit and Trump. The Chinese were approached and sampled the goods. The type of leftism the Chinese do is tad more prudent than what western lefties do. The Chinese said OK, we will buy your debt, but if this business is sound, you will have no difficulty raising capital. Today's newspaper reports the Chinese are departed. Gaelectric is for sale. Lock stock and barrel.

A spirited campaign was mounted to stop it, to cut or block subsidies, to block planning permission and to counter all the hype. The next development was the entry into the marker of semi state Bord Na Mona and Coillte, both with large land banks. Ireland needs 6,000 mw of fossil fuel generation capacity, it has 10.500 mw and plans for 15,000 mw. There were plans to export subsidized electricity to the UK. Electricity prices rose from about 14 cent to 25 cent with 38 cent being a reasonable expectation in a few years. The wind industry called for more subsidies, all from consumers, but government was slow to respond.

Will Gaelectric get a buyer? I hope not. Will the EU investment bank buy it? Probably not. It looks like there will be no more new development from Gaelectric, just existing wind farms. If they are under performing to the tune of 30% and even 40% at some locations, who will buy? Its going to be a hard sell.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...draw-1.3251532

I remember reading about you in the tenth century, still passionately promoting the idea that the Earth is flat.

Nice to see your environmental concerns move with the times.

The entire lie about humans radically affecting climate has been successfully sold to millions of fools.

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I remember reading about you in the tenth century, still passionately promoting the idea that the Earth is flat.

Nice to see your environmental concerns move with the times.

Are people not allowed question policy now? There is a distinction between the matters raised in the OP and belief in climate change. It does appear that wind energy is not delivering what it has been sold to deliver and the taxpayer is shelling out huge sums of money keeping the pup alive.

And then you come along and play the man big time. Any views on the concerns raised?

Originally Posted by The Field Marshal

The entire lie about humans radically affecting climate has been successfully sold to millions of fools.

"Germany energy consumers paid to use power over Christmas as supply outstrips demand"

Germany energy consumers paid to use power over Christmas as supply outstrips demand | The Independent

Would you agree if renewales work out cheaper than the traditional methods then that is the way we should go?

Originally Posted by Watcher2

Are people not allowed question policy now? There is a distinction between the matters raised in the OP and belief in climate change. It does appear that wind energy is not delivering what it has been sold to deliver and the taxpayer is shelling out huge sums of money keeping the pup alive.

And then you come along and play the man big time. Any views on the concerns raised?

You're absolutely right. As your beloved Trump once explained, climate change is a hoax being carried out by the Chinese to make American industry less competitive - I cannot understand why so few people take him seriously on this

This is the sort of crap politicians and Greens want to pour taxpayers’ money into.

Originally Posted by Trainwreck

This is the sort of crap politicians and Greens want to pour taxpayers’ money into.

How do you keep the lights on when oil becomes much more expensive?

Originally Posted by McSlaggart

How do you keep the lights on when oil becomes much more expensive?

Use less, same as any resource.

There seem to be two quite distinct issues raised in the OP

1. Is climate change real?

2. Do large industrial windfarms make sense?

Even if one accepts (as I do BTW) that the answer to question 1 is yes, it is still a fair question as to whether wind farms are part of the solution. There are half a dozen or so massive windmills on a hill top near where I live. I don't buy the objections on aesthetic grounds, I think they look grand, but a huge road had to be built up the side of the hill just to get the things up there. Now that too is grand as the owners don't seem to mind walkers, so it serves as a decent local amenity in it's own way and makes for a pleasant stroll on a fine day, or on a crisp winters day like yesterday. Nevertheless the energy, and CO2 release required just to build the infrastructure can't have been trivial. Am I right in thinking that it can take several years operation before a wind farm breaks even on CO2?