Cabinet's opinionation,not rational debate, on nuclear power

[patslatt]

Both the Taoiseach and the Environment Minister have decided before any thorough debate that the nuclear power option is off the table,the latter conceding that a debate could of course take place, even if futile. Generous of him! So opinionation,not rational argument,is to decide our electricity generation choices.

In the UK, it's the same. In a letter to TheTimes today,"Energy policies are just hot air and hyperbole", James Lovelock, a leading environmental thinker, and Ian Fells wrote that "we need an energy commission of knowlegeable people who will address the problem in terms of engineering reality rather than ministers who intrude with their personal agendas...

"The task...is not appreciatred by those who think that renewable energy alone,together with improved energy efficiency,will restore the climate and ensure that the lights do not go out."

For the views on nuclear power of a former USA Environmental Protection Agency head,Christine Todd Whitman,see http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/co ... =rss_daily

[Meursault]

So you seriously think that aside from the wider arguments about against nuclear power that Ireland has the economy's of scale neccessary to support a nuclear industry?

[returning officer]

Just two questions disposes of the question whether Ireland will ever build a Nuclear power station:- Which party would bring in it in and in who's constituency will it be built?

[NeilW]

In the UK, it's the same.

In the UK it's similar but completely opposite - there the government has decided that whatever the evidence there will be a new generation of nuclear power stations built.

[joel]

So you seriously think that aside from the wider arguments about against nuclear power that Ireland has the economy's of scale neccessary to support a nuclear industry?

No - and the UK cannot be compared with Ireland for that reason. Ireland has massively more Renewable resources compared to its power requirements.

[patslatt]

So you seriously think that aside from the wider arguments about against nuclear power that Ireland has the economy's of scale neccessary to support a nuclear industry?

No - and the UK cannot be compared with Ireland for that reason. Ireland has massively more Renewable resources compared to its power requirements.

One form of renewable energy,ugly wind farms, sacrifices our most scenic mountain ranges,pristine since time immemorial. This has happened in Donegal, North Tipperary and North Kerry and it's only the beginning.

As for scale economies,Ireland could invite international consortia to build nuclear power plants. A condition of building them should be the exclusion of ESB. Its unionised work force,which operates with 1970s era obsolete work practices,cannot be trusted to operate a power plant without strike threats and outrageous wage demands.

[joel]

So you seriously think that aside from the wider arguments about against nuclear power that Ireland has the economy's of scale neccessary to support a nuclear industry?

No - and the UK cannot be compared with Ireland for that reason. Ireland has massively more Renewable resources compared to its power requirements.

One form of renewable energy,ugly wind farms, sacrifices our most scenic mountain ranges,pristine since time immemorial. This has happened in Donegal, North Tipperary and North Kerry and it's only the beginning.

As for scale economies,Ireland could invite international consortia to build nuclear power plants. A condition of building them should be the exclusion of ESB. Its unionised work force,which operates with 1970s era obsolete work practices,cannot be trusted to operate a power plant without strike threats and outrageous wage demands.

All right. You find the sites - and where the Nuclear waste will be disposed of. But NO minimum price for electricity. And NO state subsidy.

[patslatt]

So you seriously think that aside from the wider arguments about against nuclear power that Ireland has the economy's of scale neccessary to support a nuclear industry?

...

One form of renewable energy,ugly wind farms, sacrifices our most scenic mountain ranges,pristine since time immemorial. This has happened in Donegal, North Tipperary and North Kerry and it's only the beginning.

As for scale economies,Ireland could invite international consortia to build nuclear power plants. A condition of building them should be the exclusion of ESB. Its unionised work force,which operates with 1970s era obsolete work practices,cannot be trusted to operate a power plant without strike threats and outrageous wage demands.

All right. You find the sites - and where the Nuclear waste will be disposed of. But NO minimum price for electricity. And NO state subsidy.

Amen to that.

Toxic nuclear waste disposal may not be a big problem,however. For instance I've heard,presumably correctly, that all of the most toxic wastes generated over about 25 years from Ontario,Canada's major nuclear plants,which are old and inefficient by today's design standards,could fit into a large swimming pool. If so,the wastes could easily be stored in a stable geological area.

Of course,it would have to be guarded in perpetuity. If the cost of a military security guard were say,$50 million a year, then in today's money the total cost in perpetuity would be,say, C$714 million at a discount rate of 7% (7% x 714 = 50). Translating to Euros,that is about €500 million.

[Meursault]

So you seriously think that aside from the wider arguments about against nuclear power that Ireland has the economy's of scale neccessary to support a nuclear industry?

No - and the UK cannot be compared with Ireland for that reason. Ireland has massively more Renewable resources compared to its power requirements.

One form of renewable energy,ugly wind farms, sacrifices our most scenic mountain ranges,pristine since time immemorial. This has happened in Donegal, North Tipperary and North Kerry and it's only the beginning.

As for scale economies,Ireland could invite international consortia to build nuclear power plants. A condition of building them should be the exclusion of ESB. Its unionised work force,which operates with 1970s era obsolete work practices,cannot be trusted to operate a power plant without strike threats and outrageous wage demands.

A couple of questions.

Who do you think are arguing for nuclear most viciforously? Why the unions with their outrages wage demands etc.

Where do we get nuclear power from? Uranium which has be mined and milled in some cases leading to grinding through 1000 tonnes of Rock to extract one tonne of "yellow cake" so hardly the most environmentally friendly.

Where do we find this uranium? In places from Canada to Kazakstan, so still reliant on foreign imports for our fuel.

Are uranium prices stable? No they fluctuate widely.

How long do reactors last? At most 24 years and are a hell of a problem to dispose of, as is the waste which it generates.

You also claim that it is "the same" in Britain but no its not, they a looking to renew its nuclear power stations.

[patslatt]

So you seriously think that aside from the wider arguments about against nuclear power that Ireland has the economy's of scale neccessary to support a nuclear industry?

No - and the UK cannot be compared with Ireland for that reason. Ireland has massively more Renewable resources compared to its power requirements.

One form of renewable energy,ugly wind farms, sacrifices our most scenic mountain ranges,pristine since time immemorial. This has happened in Donegal, North Tipperary and North Kerry and it's only the beginning.

As for scale economies,Ireland could invite international consortia to build nuclear power plants. A condition of building them should be the exclusion of ESB. Its unionised work force,which operates with 1970s era obsolete work practices,cannot be trusted to operate a power plant without strike threats and outrageous wage demands.

A couple of questions.

Who do you think are arguing for nuclear most viciforously? Why the unions with their outrages wage demands etc.

Where do we get nuclear power from? Uranium which has be mined and milled in some cases leading to grinding through 1000 tonnes of Rock to extract one tonne of "yellow cake" so hardly the most environmentally friendly.

Where do we find this uranium? In places from Canada to Kazakstan, so still reliant on foreign imports for our fuel.

Are uranium prices stable? No they fluctuate widely.

How long do reactors last? At most 24 years and are a hell of a problem to dispose of, as is the waste which it generates.

You also claim that it is "the same" in Britain but no its not, they a looking to renew its nuclear power stations.

The ESB unions favour nukes, I've read on p.ie somewhere. In the Ringsend gas fired power plant, the plant operatives (surely not rocket scientists) make €120,000 a year according to an Irish Times article. An acquaintance, a very senior line manager,said the figure is €140,000,more than he makes, and that there is constant bickering at the two gas fired plants in Dublin over overtime and work practices.

The surface has hardly been scratched on uranium exploration,which is a drop in the bucket compared to oil exploration. As for uranium prices,fluctuations send signals to the market,with high prices incentivising increased exploration and production.

Modern mining can-if it chooses or is forced to by regulation-limit environmental degradation. THe pollution from mining is a small fraction of what it used to be thirty years ago when mining engineers hardly even thought of environmental damage.

Reactors can last 40 years. If new nuclear power plants were built on the sites of old plants,that would be economical. The radioactive wastes from demolition of old plants wouldn't be at the highest level of toxity.

I've attempted to quantify the cost of disposal in a ballpark estimate earlier,but I'm no expert on that.