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  1. #121
    punchdrunk punchdrunk is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackboot View Post
    It has to be pointed out all the current minster were in the dail during the the hight of the economic madness before everything fell apart. It would be interesting to put together their contributions to the house warning of this impending disaster when in opposition.
    Responsiblity rests with the FF/PD and FF/Green governmnents which made the decisions which bankrupted the country. The game is over. The country is bankrupt. It's kaput. It will be a slow hard grind to get out of this.
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  2. #122
    He3 He3 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackboot View Post
    Could they install a meter to measure hot gas leaving linster house
    Too cheap to meter.
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  3. #123
    nonpartyboy nonpartyboy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Green View Post
    There were no exemptions granted for social welfare recipients on the household charge, or OAPS my partner is an OAP in extremely poor health, and his only income is his old age pension, he paid his Household charge. Hes on a group water scheme and pays his annual charge, and like the rest of you we assume he will be expected to pay for his water meter. Being a vunerable pensioner does not automatically mean you won't have to pay.
    Ah now come on, how many social welfare recipients live in their own property ? A tiny proportion and the majority of them would be the recently unemployed.....if you never did a toss in your life you would be exempt, tried to better yourself at some point and you've just painted a big target on your back....
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  4. #124
    ygargarin ygargarin is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackboot View Post
    Charges will replace taxes paying for services
    Taxes will replace money lost by banks
    Yes, and charges will impact lower earners disproporionately, ie, a regressive tax. This government has set it's face against progressive taxes.

    The Labour Party might as well dissolve itself.
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  5. #125
    sydney2007 sydney2007 is offline

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    "If you are being charged €300 for it, then you are being ripped off, since it can be bought online for less than €100."
    What did I tell you? Those of us who have to pay for these things will be paying not only for one for our own house, but for someone else's as well. I feel another "Wont Pay" coming on
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  6. #126
    Orbit v2 Orbit v2 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by fitzerb View Post
    Enda had a great one tonight in Mayo, "The water meter will be multi-functional" So what else can you use a water meter for ?
    maybe as a new/improved e-voting machine .... seriously 300 per household is just too much (regardless of who is actually paying), for something that isn't really needed. There isn't a shortage of water in this country. I've never been convinced of the argument for water-metering in Ireland. If it's just an EU thing, f**k them. We can't afford it. One size fits all EU rules just aren't always appropriate here.
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  7. #127
    TropicalCandy TropicalCandy is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by laidback View Post
    Perhaps its their 'special advisers' telling them stealth taxes are better, that we need new charges (not taxes!) to broaden the taxbase.
    Most of those are glorified PAs, not really advisers at all, just called that to get the pay bump.



    Quote Originally Posted by grassroots View Post
    My sister is emigrating to the UK. Her local council over there is going to charge her 2 grand a year for fire, police, schoolS and other local services. The average worker pays more tax over there than over here & the top rate pays less. Get used to the new reality of paying for services.

    I'm sorry but F&^*K YOU!! SERIOUSLY F%$ŁK YOU!!
    I've been working since I was 12 on and off and paying taxes since I was 16, I'm really starting to get sick of this snotty sh!ite i hear from some people like the above 'well you have to pay for services'...excuse me, but why am I paying 23% tax every time a buy something, 40percent income tax, levys, import taxes etc for then? FOR SERVICES!!!! Thats the way government works, we all pay a little into one giant pot an we all get services paid for from that pot, its called living in a f%$^king society! Some things are cheaper when we pool our resources than if we all paid for them as individuals, that includes lights, fire and police

    No no, what YOU mean is this...

    'lets replace a perfectly fair and proportionate central taxation system thats been in place since time immomorial where everyone pays a little into a large pot and takes from it whats needed, with a deeply regressive system where everything is split up into seperate direct charges which wind up taking more of the persons money for the exact same level of services [or worse] and has none of the benefits of pooling our resources that central taxation does'

    Are you all so blind that you can't see what the agenda is here? Its not even a secret the plutocrats pushing this agenda brag about it all the time!! The agenda for years has been thus:

    1. Divide and Conquer [prevent the middle and working classes from seeing what they have in common-the same basic economic power status-and make sure they bicker over everything from cultural norms to whos a water carryer v whos a water drinker]

    2. ''Starve the beast''
    [this is one they brag about the most, you gut the tax system and riddle it with loopholes then you say 'oh sorry we'd LOVE to give you a proper health system but we simply don't have the money, ching ching gotta cut back now sorry...just like you gotta balance your budget at home we gotta be sane in how we spend the money an that few million to keep education free well we just can't do it...whats that Anglo Irish you need 3billion for your failed business? ok here you go...

    3. Individualize, seperate and commodify.
    The reason they want you paying for everything as a seperate charge instead of just paying your taxes and thats it, is two fold...
    A. To get you thinking of yourselves as a collection of individuals, not a soceity or a block of workers/middle/working class people who have anything in common, becuase the more you think what you all have in common the more you realize a certain tiny elite DON'T have certain things in common with you and you and your neighbours start thinking of ways to redress that balance..so they wanna encourage you to think of say waste management as a private service that YOU the good fella are payin for but that wagon down the raod Marcy isn't payin for, this gets you nice and resentful of marcy for being a leech so you don't see what you have in common with Marcy economically, and since you now hate her you won't be uniting with her to carry burning torches to march on the Oireachtas
    B. To get you thinking of things like healthcare, fire, waste, water etc not as basic public services all paid for by central taxation, but as commodities, and if they're commodities then why is the state running them? better privatize them. This lowers your expectations of what the state should provide in services as well as making a small elite an unholy fortune off your back.

    This agenda has been clear as day since the collapse of the golden age of capitalism [50s-70s when growth and social spending went up together in perfect paralell and tax rates for the super rich reached 90percent] and stagnation of the keynsian model in the 70s onwards, this has been a very clear agenda being pushed in every country on this planet.

    Wake up people, you don't have to be a raving socialist head to open your eyes and realize what way the modern world is going.

    Theres also this bizzare worship of Germany, and how Germany does things but do you notice the people driving this agenda are not praising Germanys healthcare system or its social welfare system which is far more comprehensive than ours, or their education system or that of the French which is free at all levels? No they push the MYTH that the Germans are fiscally prudent and always balance their budgets, playing on absurd cartoonish steriotypes about German effecency.
    But just because Germany does something does that mean its a good idea? No its all part of this same agenda, I saw on Frontline some snotty German chick thats always on TV saying that in her apt block if the council replaces the pavement out front that the people in the apt block get billed for it even if they didn't ask for it to be replaced, and people applauded....er...THAT SYSTEM IS INSANE...INNNNNSSSSSAAAANE, be careful what you people are supporting.

    All you people who think you're all mature and prudent praising these regressive seperate charges are gonna wake up in a dystopian nightmare one day where theres private companies owning the police force and theres a fee payable if a cop stops a criminal from raping you. You keep letting them individualize everything like this and we will undo all the socio-economic progress the west has made as a society since the 19th century, they're already stripping it apart with public services being privatized and now going so far as to discuss privatizing roads and police forces!! WAKE UP FFSAKE and look at where the worlds going.

    You can see this with anything, is it better everyone pays an extra half of 1 percent a week on their taxes or better that an entire generation is crippled with 5 figure student debts?


    The above type of person also seems to have this bizzare notion that they are the only ones who pay for services and everyone else is leeching off them. EVERYONE pays taxes in some form or another, EVERYONE. Some of you are such willing serfs and useful idiots the plutocrats that control the policy agenda must be laughing their asses off at how easy it is to get you to support things not in your economic intrests, you're all playing so easily into their propaganda and their divide and conquer strategies its actaully scary..

    There is nothing prudent or mature or 'centrist' or 'pragmatic' about being a Turkey voting for Christmas
    Last edited by TropicalCandy; 15th April 2012 at 10:42 PM.
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  8. #128
    harshreality harshreality is offline
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    While there will be a charge I think the 300 figure has been described as speculative.

    It seems that the government has been hijacked by a gang of phd students from NUI Maynooth who are conducting experiments to establish how much punishment a nation can take before they rise up, wag their fingers and say 'nah ah ah Enda we aint havin that sh1t in this neighbourhood'
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  9. #129
    nonpartyboy nonpartyboy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by sydney2007 View Post
    "If you are being charged €300 for it, then you are being ripped off, since it can be bought online for less than €100."
    What did I tell you? Those of us who have to pay for these things will be paying not only for one for our own house, but for someone else's as well. I feel another "Wont Pay" coming on
    You can be guaranteed the meters could be bought an fitted for the price the state will pay just to have them installed, we are here to be ridden by big business, assisted by our trough swilling politicians.
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  10. #130
    turdsl turdsl is online now

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    I wonder will the highly paid special advisers be on hand to help Mr Kenny with this, or the € 40000 that James Reilly and Francis Fitzgerald paid to Terry Prone for advice and speech writing help them smooth talk the price of the water meter, Very smart indeed we pay them to con ourselves.
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