Sale of Coillte

[Greg Mooney]

Sounds like a marvelous idea when you put it like that but lets face it our civil service and politicians have a habit of selling us down the river to their cohorts (Bertie, Lowry etc etc) and so far FG have not actually inspired me by their ethics.

[Luachara]

They commissioned a geological survey years ago but have never released the results. Chances are that some of the forest is on land where there are extractable deposits. A private company getting hands on that would be quids in.

There is potential in forestry here - as source of timber and bio mass but it has nevr been properly developed. Switzerland has thriving forestry sector with thousands of jobs and from a similar base. Very badly mismanaged here according to experts. Even just on the level of the sort of trees they have planted rather than the indigenous species, or a mix of.

Ireland grows terrible timber for the most part. The true potential of our forrests is that of amenity woodland. Unfortunately we are not planting hardwoods. Much forrestry was planted not as commercial forrestry but as social forrestry.

Boimass is not a commercial proposition compared to better alternatives like LPG technology. It make most sense to insulate houses to a near passive standard than to grows trees to burn to heat them.

[Luachara]

We could open a new super quarry and supply The UK with quarry products and compete with the UK's biggest quarry. This could earn us bilions. Better off keeping our woodlands and planting hardwoods.

http://www.google.ie/search?q=glensa...w=1093&bih=507

Glensanda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Tombo]

Shouldn't we continue to harvest ourselves? I'm not so sure private industry would provide the same level of care.

ROFLMAO

[ger12]

It kind of misses the point though. Ireland is bankrupt and has gone cap in hand with its sovereignty to international institutions who are funding us. A condition of that funding is that we raise an amount of money from privatisation. The state could theoretically do all of the things that it currently does itself. If we are to maintain funding of the state through this programme we have got to sell something and the issue is simply then what. There are two debates to be had and they are separate. 1) should we give the two fingers to the troika and go it alone and 2) if we do how will we fund ourselves / if we don't, which assets do we sell and therefore Coillte can't be examined on it own but only in comparison to other potential asset sales.

Yes we do. So, as I've already posted, why not go with FG's policy?

[ger12]

They commissioned a geological survey years ago but have never released the results. Chances are that some of the forest is on land where there are extractable deposits. A private company getting hands on that would be quids in.

There is potential in forestry here - as source of timber and bio mass but it has nevr been properly developed. Switzerland has thriving forestry sector with thousands of jobs and from a similar base. Very badly mismanaged here according to experts. Even just on the level of the sort of trees they have planted rather than the indigenous species, or a mix of.

Chances are indeed.

[Hlodweg]

Hey, I am a student in Forestry (3rd year) and totally opposed to the privatisation of Coillte. Here are my reasons!
1: the sales of harvesting rights will bring c. 1.8 billion to the government (Business Post 20/01/2012) . The cost of nationalised AIB alone is costing 36 billions (Irish times 24/01/2012). The sale of Coillte will not change the financial situation. It will only pay a faction of the interests of the debts.
2 : The lands and the trees belong to the Irish people: in 1900, the forest cover was only 1% of the territory, now forest cover represents 10% ( In Europe, the average is around 30%). This politic was supported by the government and it invested massively. Irish peoples have paid for the trees through their taxes. The private sector ( abit more than 30 % of the sector)was also supported by the government with the multiplication of grants for planting, thinning...These grants are diseaparing now and one wonder of what will happen ot all these samll private forests, most of them converted farming lands.
3 : Most of the lands have been planted from the 70's to 2000. A lot of mistakes were made as the forestry industry was still young in Ireland but it had improved a lot. It is probable that the most valuable crops are the ones to come. One of the most important costs in forestry is planting. A lot of money has been spent, why giving the benfices to somebody elses.
4 : Coillte seems to make benefices after few difficult years. there is probably a need for lot of changes in this organisation but i donot think that get rid of it will be help Ireland.
5: I have read that the harvesting rights would be sold for 70-80 years. In ireland a full rotation is typically 40 years. Most of the crops is harvested by clearfelling. Typically a rotation consists of planting, several thinings and clearfelling. The owners of the rights will have two rotations. Who will pay the replanting of the lands after the last clearfelling?

[Hlodweg]

6: Forests are natural carbon sinks. There is a huge trade of carbon rights due to weather change. I do not know much about it yet but i think it will be an important element.
7: Access. Coillte as a semi public company has a open policy and free access to the lands is allowed. It is not its obligation to do it. I am not sure if there is any right of way in Ireland in the case of people just wanting to have have a walk. I have been told that such a right of "wandering", commun on the continent, does not exist in Ireland. It could be the end of the sunday walks wih the kids!
8: Forest is not an isolated aspect in the environment. Forest cover and edgerows helps to prevent fllods by keeping a lot of water. A lot of cuttings in the same time could have a large impact of farming lands, towns and villages situated near rivers. Forests also help retaining soil and prevent erosion. Forestry is a long process. The results of what we do today are seen 20, 30 or 40 years later. There also a cumulative effect on soil quality and even on roads. A lot of research is done now to help preventing the side effects of the forest industry. A person who own the rights of harvesting for only 80 years will not have the same incentives to protect the lands. A owner (private or public) makes a large investment in the future and will want to keep the potential of the land intact.
9 : Tourism. The state want to attract tourism. One of the main attractions of Ireland is its landscape. Coillte does now a lot of efforts in limiting the visual impacts of the harvesting. I am not sure if big international pension funds will have the same care.

[ger12]

Hey, I am a student in Forestry (3rd year) and totally opposed to the privatisation of Coillte. Here are my reasons!
1: the sales of harvesting rights will bring c. 1.8 billion to the government (Business Post 20/01/2012) . The cost of nationalised AIB alone is costing 36 billions (Irish times 24/01/2012). The sale of Coillte will not change the financial situation. It will only pay a faction of the interests of the debts.
2 : The lands and the trees belong to the Irish people: in 1900, the forest cover was only 1% of the territory, now forest cover represents 10% ( In Europe, the average is around 30%). This politic was supported by the government and it invested massively. Irish peoples have paid for the trees through their taxes. The private sector ( abit more than 30 % of the sector)was also supported by the government with the multiplication of grants for planting, thinning...These grants are diseaparing now and one wonder of what will happen ot all these samll private forests, most of them converted farming lands.
3 : Most of the lands have been planted from the 70's to 2000. A lot of mistakes were made as the forestry industry was still young in Ireland but it had improved a lot. It is probable that the most valuable crops are the ones to come. One of the most important costs in forestry is planting. A lot of money has been spent, why giving the benfices to somebody elses.
4 : Coillte seems to make benefices after few difficult years. there is probably a need for lot of changes in this organisation but i donot think that get rid of it will be help Ireland.
5: I have read that the harvesting rights would be sold for 70-80 years. In ireland a full rotation is typically 40 years. Most of the crops is harvested by clearfelling. Typically a rotation consists of planting, several thinings and clearfelling. The owners of the rights will have two rotations. Who will pay the replanting of the lands after the last clearfelling?

Fair points.

[Squib]

Has anyone seen the very very weird "terms and agreement" page on Bertie's Forest Fund website?
Can any legal types advise? am I in trouble for including the link?

The International Forestry Funds