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  1. #9271
    IbrahaimMohamad IbrahaimMohamad is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by valamhic View Post
    Exactly. Can you help us understand why so many people appear to think otherwise? Not a catch question, I never thought wind worked so I cannot relate my own experience of how I formed my opinion. We need someone who really thought wind worked and now realizes it does not to explain how they came to change their mind.

    They get away with this primarily for three basic reasons.
    1 - Wind proponents are not asked to independently PROVE the merits of their claims before (or after) their product is forced on the public.
    2 - There is no penalty for making bogus assertions or dishonest claims about their product’s “benefits,” so each successive contention is more grandiose than the last.
    3 - Promoting wind is a political agenda that is divorced from real science. A true scientific assessment is a comprehensive, objective evaluation with transparent real world data – not on carefully massaged computer models and slick advertising campaigns, which are the mainstay of anti-science evangelists promoting political agendas. -
    See more at: http://www.masterresource.org/2012/1....Agt0POl2.dpuf


    Yes Wind Spin!

    Suggesting "Wind should be part of the mix"
    Arguing that "Wind energy is free"
    Arguing that "Wind energy is green and sustainable"
    Arguing that "We need Energy Security"
    Arguing that "WE can export Wind Power"
    Arguing that " Green energy creates Jobs" Using a less efficient way of generating energy that requires more resources and more labour and more capital and which is used as a duplicate system makes energy much dearer and destroys jobs by driving business overseas.
    Arguing that "Wind Power is a plentiful resource"

    Arguing that " Electric cars are the future" Irelands CO2 output per kilowatt hour is 528 grams per kilowatt hour. There is no co2 advantage to an electric car with a co2 level so high per kilowatt hour
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  2. #9272
    valamhic valamhic is offline

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    Wind Power Investments in Germany Proving Riskier than Thought - SPIEGEL ONLINE

    How long more can private investors be fooled.

    I see in the telegraph that the EU commission gave 90 million euros to green lobby groups over 15 years. They even paid them to lobby themselves.
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  3. #9273
    valamhic valamhic is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by IbrahaimMohamad View Post
    They get away with this primarily for three basic reasons.
    1 - Wind proponents are not asked to independently PROVE the merits of their claims before (or after) their product is forced on the public.
    2 - There is no penalty for making bogus assertions or dishonest claims about their product’s “benefits,” so each successive contention is more grandiose than the last.
    3 - Promoting wind is a political agenda that is divorced from real science. A true scientific assessment is a comprehensive, objective evaluation with transparent real world data – not on carefully massaged computer models and slick advertising campaigns, which are the mainstay of anti-science evangelists promoting political agendas. -
    See more at: Twenty Bad Things About Wind Energy, and Three Reasons Why — MasterResource


    Yes Wind Spin!

    Suggesting "Wind should be part of the mix"
    Arguing that "Wind energy is free"
    Arguing that "Wind energy is green and sustainable"
    Arguing that "We need Energy Security"
    Arguing that "WE can export Wind Power"
    Arguing that " Green energy creates Jobs" Using a less efficient way of generating energy that requires more resources and more labour and more capital and which is used as a duplicate system makes energy much dearer and destroys jobs by driving business overseas.
    Arguing that "Wind Power is a plentiful resource"

    Arguing that " Electric cars are the future" Irelands CO2 output per kilowatt hour is 528 grams per kilowatt hour. There is no co2 advantage to an electric car with a co2 level so high per kilowatt hour
    There was an earlier report that E cars are greater emitters than diesel ones , now there is one the they are greater emitters than petrol ones too. It will be interesting to see what happens when drivers have to charge their batteries at home at 22 cent per unit.
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  4. #9274
    valamhic valamhic is offline

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    This tread seems to be winding up for lack of interest. By now it seems everyone accept wind is a scam. Before I go and let it die, can I nominate myself for an accolade for diplomacy. I have been pushing my anti wind scam case here for 4 years against 5 or 6 green lefty hippies types who were determined to prove me wrong. In succeeding, I did it without hurting anyones feelings and by my gentle conciliatory modest nature I brought the doubters round to my way of thinking by persuasion and understanding. I surely deserve a mention for diplomacy and public relations. What do you all think?
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  5. #9275
    ocianain ocianain is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by valamhic View Post
    This tread seems to be winding up for lack of interest. By now it seems everyone accept wind is a scam. Before I go and let it die, can I nominate myself for an accolade for diplomacy. I have been pushing my anti wind scam case here for 4 years against 5 or 6 green lefty hippies types who were determined to prove me wrong. In succeeding, I did it without hurting anyones feelings and by my gentle conciliatory modest nature I brought the doubters round to my way of thinking by persuasion and understanding. I surely deserve a mention for diplomacy and public relations. What do you all think?
    Truer words were never spoken. You handled yourself well. You owned your adversaries, you did all this while remaining both composed and respectful of others who were often condescending and advancing ill informed opinion....you're a better man than I! Slainte! *Lifts glass, Sips some Powers*
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  6. #9276
    valamhic valamhic is offline

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    Spain has announced massive retrospective cuts to wind subsidies.

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...11045793611039

    It has left the industry bugg eared. Ireland is one of the few countries to keep these stupid subsidies and we will get rid of RABBITTE eventually to halt them here too
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  7. #9277
    valamhic valamhic is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocianain View Post
    Truer words were never spoken. You handled yourself well. You owned your adversaries, you did all this while remaining both composed and respectful of others who were often condescending and advancing ill informed opinion....you're a better man than I! Slainte! *Lifts glass, Sips some Powers*
    LOL. I was helped compiling my self praise last night by John Power & Son LOl
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  8. #9278
    ocianain ocianain is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by valamhic View Post
    LOL. I was helped compiling my self praise last night by John Power & Son LOl
    Powers and Son are an inspiring Muse (what the Irish word for Muse? Anyone know?)
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  9. #9279
    The Cylon The Cylon is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by valamhic View Post
    This tread seems to be winding up for lack of interest. By now it seems everyone accept wind is a scam. Before I go and let it die, can I nominate myself for an accolade for diplomacy. I have been pushing my anti wind scam case here for 4 years against 5 or 6 green lefty hippies types who were determined to prove me wrong. In succeeding, I did it without hurting anyones feelings and by my gentle conciliatory modest nature I brought the doubters round to my way of thinking by persuasion and understanding. I surely deserve a mention for diplomacy and public relations. What do you all think?
    Do you really think doubters have been persuaded? Most posters come with their opinion and try to bend facts/physics to fit that opinion. That goes for the pro and anti wind posters.
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  10. #9280
    Cnoc a Leassa Cnoc a Leassa is offline

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    In today’s Sunday Independent we have John Drennan saying “In an interview with the Sunday Independent, Mr Rabbitte said: "I seem to have singularly failed to communicate the fact that if there is a wind export project it is entirely separate from the pylons row. The minister gave a commitment the building out of a pylon network is to meet "our domestic needs". Mr Rabbitte, though, was also critical of the failure of EirGrid to win over the consent of communities affected by the company's proposals.”

    What an extraordinary sequence of statements, culminating in blaming EirGrid for the disaster?

    Perhaps he will now try making an explanation as distinct from making an assertion and so remedy the confusion.

    In trying to make such an explanation, he will have to deal with the reality of Transmission Development Plan 2020 (TDP2020). His other option is to try to continue the disassembly of the story and try to keep focus on the minor element of TDP2020 that is to do with genuine reinforcement of parts of the transmission system.

    One important reason for his real difficulty in making an explanation is the fact that a substantial portion of TDP 2020 is actually to do with taking wind energy on to the system and exporting it.

    For a start the Minister could read the EirGrid News Release dated 28 November, 2013 in which it is claimed that “Ireland is continuing its world-leading progress in facilitating renewable energy on the grid. No other synchronous electricity system of scale manages the same levels of instantaneous wind penetration levels (50%) seen at times today in Ireland and Northern Ireland, and no other synchronous power system is aiming to safely and securely manage real-time wind generation penetration levels of 75% by 2020.

    This is an EirGrid red flag and air raid type warning to citizens and politicians. EirGrid can only do its best to take all the various Government policies and try to translate them into a transmission system that will deliver a stable electricity supply to customers. If the politicians have no concern about the cost implications for customers, why should EirGrid. If there is an Oireachtas enquiry into how the wind energy policy led to disaster, EirGrid will have their paper work in order, showing that what happened was purely political.

    As a country we are already in uncharted territory as to the scale of wind power on our system. We are about to launch ourselves on a new massive wind energy bubble and by 2020 we will made a massive financial investment in wind power and also probably be locked into purchasing all the wind available if the present plan goes ahead.

    Clearly there is no domestic capacity to absorb the scale of wind energy that will be generate so it must be exported and at what price is absolutely crucial. If we lock ourselves into a massive wind energy capacity and electricity costs fall on the back of emerging new lower cost energy sources, it’s the Irish electricity consumer that will have to pick up the tab again.

    We went for a massive construction bubble and we all know how that ended. On the road to disaster, we were assured we knew what we were doing, we were smarter than others, “build them and they will come” was the philosophy. We built the property and they did not come.

    The same may happen with the wind energy bubble. The prudent course for the country would be to be an “alert follower” in the scale of wind energy we take on board. Being already so far out on a limb on the scale of the wind energy on our system has left us in a very risky place.

    After the disaster of the construction bubble, we need better from this Government that disassembly, evasion and a few vague assertions that we should trust them.
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