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Thread: Why so much anger in anti-AGW circles?

  1. #1
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    Why so much anger in anti-AGW circles?

    I found some interesting documentation of the intimidation scientists are increasingly facing for doing their jobs.

    Cyber Bullying Intensifies as Climate Data Questioned: Scientific American

    The e-mails come thick and fast every time NASA scientist Gavin Schmidt appears in the press.

    Rude and crass e-mails. E-mails calling him a fraud, a cheat, a scumbag and much worse.

    To Schmidt and other researchers purging their inboxes daily of such correspondence, the barrage is simply part of the job of being a climate scientist. But others see the messages as threats and intimidation—cyber-bullying meant to shut down debate and cow scientists into limiting their participation in the public discourse.

    "I get a lot of hate mail," said Schmidt, a climate modeler at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies who also runs RealClimate.org, a website devoted to debunking myths and errors about climate change. "I get a lot of praise mail, but pretty much every time I have a quote in a mainstream publication I'll get a string of emails from various people accusing me of various misdemeanors and fantasizing about my life in prison."
    So, the "AGW sceptic" tendency to use insults liberally, as an alternative to reasoned argument, is universal it seems.

    Organized, "McCarthyite" tactics aimed at specific scientists by various groups can be stressful, Schmidt said. "Frivolous" Freedom of Information Act requests can tie up considerable quantities of researchers' time.

    But worst of all, he said, are "intimidating letters" from congressional members threatening dire consequences to scientists working on climate change.

    "That is chilling the work of science in the agencies," Schmidt said. "It's certainly very off-putting for scientists who want to talk about their stuff in public but fear the political consequences."

    "Nobody wants to create an enemy on the Hill."

    For the most part, the rants have remained just that - rants. Threats of physical harm remain rare and are usually discounted, scientists say. "These people don't really know you," Schmidt added. "They're not really talking about you. You're just a symbol that has an e-mail address."
    Perhaps these threats from members of the US House of Reps are an example of "democratic electorates" responding to "green alarmism"?

    What's clear is the e-mails show anger and hostility. There's no effort to ask questions or seek what Trenberth called "the truth." Scientists aren't the only target; journalists covering the issue also routinely find their inbox stuffed with epithets.

    "They do not tend to be reasonable," said Rudy Baum, editor-in-chief of Chemical and Engineering News, who has been covering science for the magazine for 30 years. "They do not seem to be interested in dialogue. They are shrill, they are unfriendly, and they are bullying."

    Why so much venom and vitriol?

    The answer is simple, said Marc Morano, executive editor at ClimateDepot.com, who has spent years trying to expose global warming hype: The public is bitterly angry at the "con job" perpetrated by climate scientists.

    "You have every aspect of our lives subject to regulatory control - down to the light bulbs we can put in - based on climate science," Morano said. The researchers "never wanted to debate and they kept trying to demand the debate was over."
    The people sending these rants are like many posters on this forum: they are certain that AGW is a fraud. The debate is over for them.

    I would take Morano's explanation for the anger with a grain of salt. I have not noticed every aspect of my life being regulated by climate science, or even any of it.
    "But do 'climategate' revelations justify the sceptics’ claims that this is “the final nail in the coffin” of global warming theory? Not at all. They damage the credibility of three or four scientists. They raise questions about the integrity of one or perhaps two out of several hundred lines of evidence."

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  2. #2
    Politics.ie Regular kerdasi amaq's Avatar
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    The "AGW" people have difficulty realising that they've lost the "debate", how long will it take for this truth to sink in?

    Rigging the data to fit pre-determined conclusions is not, and never was, science!
    Last edited by kerdasi amaq; 19th March 2010 at 04:19 PM.
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    Lightbulbs is actually pretty much the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
    Never let the best be the enemy of the good.

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    The people sending these rants are like many posters on this forum: they are certain that AGW is a fraud. The debate is over for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by kerdasi amaq View Post
    The "AGW" people have difficulty realising that they've lost the "debate", how long will it take for it to sink in.

    Rigging the data to fit pre-determined conclusions is not, and never was, science!
    Are you a robot? because all your posts say the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by ibis View Post
    Lightbulbs is actually pretty much the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
    It's probably the only thing Morano can think of too.

  5. #5
    Politics.ie Regular Cassandra Syndrome's Avatar
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    Every now and again there comes along a scientific study that proves beyond reasonable doubt what you instinctively know to be true: wine is good for you, exercise is dangerous, and self-righteous environmentalists are lying, cheating, thieving degenerates.
    I'm exaggerating only a little. Do Green Products Make Us Better People?, a paper in the latest edition of the journal Psychological Science, argues that those who wear what the authors call the "halo of green consumerism" are less likely to be kind to others, and more likely to cheat and steal. Faced with various moral choices – whether to stick to the rules in games, for example, or to pay themselves an appropriate wage – the green participants behaved much worse in the experiments than their conventional counterparts. The short answer to the paper's question, then, is: No. Greens are mean.

    The authors, two Canadian psychologists, came up with an intriguing explanation for this. "Virtuous acts," they write, "can license subsequent asocial and unethical behaviour." It's the yin-yang theory of psychology, or "compensatory ethics", to give it its proper name. Buy an organic potato, then go home and beat your wife with The Guardian. Hop smugly into a green hybrid car, then use it to run over little old ladies doing their shopping.
    Liars, cheats, thieves: the terrible truth about the mean greens - Telegraph
    "No one rules if no one obeys" - Tao

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    Quote Originally Posted by Húrin View Post
    Are you a robot? because all your posts say the same thing.
    Lightbulbs is actually pretty much the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
    It's probably the only thing Morano can think of too.
    I'm not sure we're going to get much joy here. So far we've had two AGW-sceptics, and both their posts have been repeats.

    Any advance on lightbulbs? Going once...
    Never let the best be the enemy of the good.

  7. #7
    Politics.ie Regular Panopticon's Avatar
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    Sick BS. Do you know anyone who ran over people in their cars because they bought green products? If not, then stop spamming every relevant thread with lies from whatever rag your blogs told you to read today.

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    Politics.ie Regular Raketemensch's Avatar
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    The odd time I look at one of these threads I can see what kind of people post on an anti-AGW agenda. I'm unsure about the science but I can see sure enough which group I don't fancy agreeing with!

  9. #9
    Politics.ie Regular TommyO'Brien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Húrin View Post
    I found some interesting documentation of the intimidation scientists are increasingly facing for doing their jobs.

    Cyber Bullying Intensifies as Climate Data Questioned: Scientific American



    So, the "AGW sceptic" tendency to use insults liberally, as an alternative to reasoned argument, is universal it seems.



    Perhaps these threats from members of the US House of Reps are an example of "democratic electorates" responding to "green alarmism"?



    The people sending these rants are like many posters on this forum: they are certain that AGW is a fraud. The debate is over for them.

    I would take Morano's explanation for the anger with a grain of salt. I have not noticed every aspect of my life being regulated by climate science, or even any of it.
    Denialists across a range of areas tend to be made up of a mix of people


    • The well-meaning but gullible.
    • The paranoid fanatists who believe everything is a plot.
    • The scientific illiterates, often linked to the God Squad, who become convinced of their own expertise because they saw something on you tube.
    • Those desparate for a 'cause' and fall for the latest bs on you tube.
    • Extreme right wingers and extreme left wingers who are convinced that the right or the left are 'controlling' their agenda and so ideologically they must oppose it.
    One of the ironies is that those who shout most loudly about plots against them, and looking for 'the truth', are easy prey for chancers on a lot of American websites who use the websites as their bully pulpit. In the past these chancers used real pulpits, setting up their own churches and moving from town to town conning the gullible and taking their money. In the 21st century the chancers just set up websites to promote their makey-up message, and usually either they directly, or someone they promote, conveniently has a pay for access website. Some of the most notorious make millions by it. The irony is that their followers become so worked up about conspiracies that they are easy prey for these conmen, who pump out dodgy books claiming everything is a conspiracy, and their supporters fall for it.

    What is amazing is how many of these followers, who think they are "standing out from the crowd" and "independent minded", are practically drones who post the same illiterate nonsense, the same empty clichés and the same childish analysis, and then think they are well-informed and independent-minded. And all the while their 'heroes' make their millions off the scam and laugh at them, wondering how so many people can be so utterly gullible, but glad they are, thanks to the contribution they make to their bank balance.
    All views expressed are my own.

  10. #10
    Politics.ie Member Oreo Livermore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyO'Brien View Post
    And all the while their 'heroes' make their millions off the scam and laugh at them, wondering how so many people can be so utterly gullible, but glad they are, thanks to the contribution they make to their bank balance.





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