Solar Minimum 2009, Global Cooling and the Record Breaking Winter

[Akrasia]

What tripe. Ice forms from sub zero conditions. The fact that more ice has formed across the arctic circle laughs in the face of your fancy pants 3D graph. Here's an article about the Arctic Ice showing a satellite image of where yours showed a high red level.

Arctic ice increased during freezing winter - Telegraph

Did you read your own link?

Unusually cold weather, caused by the same patterns that have given Britain its coldest winter for decades, has resulted in levels of ice cover in line with longer-term averages for the first time since 2001.

What does that say?

It has to be unusually cold to produce ice that is of average extent? (by the way, even at 11 degrees above long term average in the arctic, it will still be below zero during winter and new ice will still be formed.)

and a few paragraphs later

Dr Mark Serreze, of the NSlDC, said: “What this doesn't show is any indication that global warming is over. If you look at the Arctic as a whole we might get to average amounts of sea ice for the time of year. But the ice is thin and quite vulnerable and it can melt very quickly.”

Which completely backs up what I said about having to wait until the melt season is over to see how much of this ice survives to become multi year ice. If it all melts this summer and some of the older ice melts with it, then we are still on course for an ice free arctic summer very soon

PS - And what gibberish are you trying to imply by me being against the war criminal Obama?

I have no clue what on earth you're going on about here. Have you finally lost your mind?

[Cassandra Syndrome]

Especially ironic given that he went on a rant against 'B Obama's war in afghanistan'

When the U.N. were totally against the 'war on terror' and Bush had to basically lie and cheat and fabricate a U.N. mandate to allow him to invade Afghanistan/Iraq

This tripe here. Can losing short term memory not be categorised as losing one's mind?

Also I clearly said in my first post yesterday about Arctic conditions and how they laugh at your silly graphs, that within these articles there are interviews with warmies with their hysterical reasoning behind the dramatic increase in Arctic Ice mass.

Your graph shows the Arctic circle and North Canada red. The satellite image from that article shows the spread of ice over this area, including the water ways which are now frozen over.

Are you suggesting that ice has nothing to do with temperature?

[Akrasia]

This tripe here. Can losing short term memory not be categorised as losing one's mind?

That was nothing to do with Obama, and everything to do with your anti-UN Agenda and the fact that the genesis of the anti U.N. sentiment was from when they opposed the 'war on terror' and the war mongers were offended that a supranational agency had the cheek to try and tell the U.S. what to do.

Now you're hysterically accusing Obama of being a war monger simply because you oppose his other policies in other areas. (Obama never invaded any country)

Also I clearly said in my first post yesterday about Arctic conditions and how they laugh at your silly graphs, that within these articles there are interviews with warmies with their hysterical reasoning behind the dramatic increase in Arctic Ice mass.

So you ignore the experts because you don't agree with them, and instead look for confirmation of your own beliefs from statements from extremely dubious front "think tanks" like "the global warming policy foundation"

Your graph shows the Arctic circle and North Canada red. The satellite image from that article shows the spread of ice over this area, including the water ways which are now frozen over.

'My' graph is from the NOAA. are you accusing the NOAA of fabricating their data? The graph temperatures in February were much colder in the area of the arctic above europe and much warmer in the area of the arctic over the U.S. Both places would still have been sub zero and ice would have been forming throughout the entire arctic.

Are you suggesting that ice has nothing to do with temperature?

The rate of ice formation depends on much more than just air temperatures. Also, for the 20th time, ice extent is not the important thing, it's ice mass. A large extent of thin ice will not survive a warm summer and the decline of the arctic ice cap will continue at a distressing pace.

I'm still waiting for you to provide some concrete details for your prediction that we will see a 'cool summer' in 2010.

Pick 4 cities in different parts of the world and tell me how much below their average temperature they will be in July this year?

[Wakeupcall]

That was nothing to do with Obama, and everything to do with your anti-UN Agenda and the fact that the genesis of the anti U.N. sentiment was from when they opposed the 'war on terror' and the war mongers were offended that a supranational agency had the cheek to try and tell the U.S. what to do.

Now you're hysterically accusing Obama of being a war monger simply because you oppose his other policies in other areas. (Obama never invaded any country)


So you ignore the experts because you don't agree with them, and instead look for confirmation of your own beliefs from statements from extremely dubious front "think tanks" like "the global warming policy foundation"


'My' graph is from the NOAA. are you accusing the NOAA of fabricating their data? The graph temperatures in February were much colder in the area of the arctic above europe and much warmer in the area of the arctic over the U.S. Both places would still have been sub zero and ice would have been forming throughout the entire arctic.

The rate of ice formation depends on much more than just air temperatures. Also, for the 20th time, ice extent is not the important thing, it's ice mass. A large extent of thin ice will not survive a warm summer and the decline of the arctic ice cap will continue at a distressing pace.

I'm still waiting for you to provide some concrete details for your prediction that we will see a 'cool summer' in 2010.

Pick 4 cities in different parts of the world and tell me how much below their average temperature they will be in July this year?

Lots of wind, icy chilly wind here.

[Cassandra Syndrome]

I'm still waiting for you to provide some concrete details for your prediction that we will see a 'cool summer' in 2010.

Pick 4 cities in different parts of the world and tell me how much below their average temperature they will be in July this year?

The only points worth replying to.

This website has all the latest in solar activity.

SpaceWeather.com -- News and information about meteor showers, solar flares, auroras, and near-Earth asteroids

Any unexpected surges in sunspot numbers, I will notify this thread.

http://sidc.oma.be/html/wolfmms.html
(latest graph on sunspot numbers) - Not fancy but truthful

We will monitor Ireland's temperature record. I will get back back with 3 other locations that are random and isolated from each other on the globe.

Also will track tropical storms. The Southern Hemisphere season is over this month and its been below average and pretty inactive.

[Cassandra Syndrome]

As parts of the world experienced a brutal winter and record snowfall, the Arctic ice grew almost the average levels of ice again.
The United States recorded snowfall in all 50 states this winter season and parts of the United Kingdom are still experiencing winter as temperatures have fallen below -5 degrees Celsius and snow.
However, this unusual weather has actually helped the Arctic ice cap as it has reportedly gained nearly the average levels of ice again, according to the Telegraph. The Arctic ice increased dramatically for the first time since 2001, which was illustrated in figures published by the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) in Colorado.
The Danish Meteorological Institute’s figures also showed that the Arctic Ice had the highest growth in the last six years. The Times Online reports that strong, chilly winds across the Bering Sea over the past few months have also caused thousands of square miles of ocean to freeze.
Nevertheless, some are still denying that this is the end of global warming. Mark Serreze of the NSIDC believes the latest reports don’t show any “indication” that global warming is over, reports Top News.
“If you look at the Arctic as a whole we might get to average amounts of sea ice for the time of year. But the ice is thin and quite vulnerable and it can melt very quickly,” said Serreze.
However, many scientists and officials are now starting to question the notion that the North Pole will be free of ice within the next three years. David Whitehouse of the Global Warming Policy Foundation said that it does seem that the sea ice is returning to average after the record lows over the last few years and noted a recovery trend.
“The recent observations do make the 2007 projections that the region would be ice free by 2013 look very unrealistic. Given what is happening only the foolish would look many years into the future and predict ice free summers now,” said Whitehouse.
Digital Journal also reported in February that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change underestimated the Antarctic sea ice increase by 50 per cent.

Figures show Arctic ice dramatically increased during winter

[Akrasia]

The only points worth replying to.

This website has all the latest in solar activity.

SpaceWeather.com -- News and information about meteor showers, solar flares, auroras, and near-Earth asteroids

Any unexpected surges in sunspot numbers, I will notify this thread.

SIDC : Sunspot data - Graphics
(latest graph on sunspot numbers) - Not fancy but truthful

We will monitor Ireland's temperature record. I will get back back with 3 other locations that are random and isolated from each other on the globe.

So just to narrow it down, you are expecting average temperatures in ireland to be colder than normal for the month of july excepting some kind of unexpected surge in solar activity?
Grand. If we can pick 4 other locations have something we can work with. I would suggest Tokyo Brazilia, Capetown, Chicago to give a wide geographic spread.

Also will track tropical storms. The Southern Hemisphere season is over this month and its been below average and pretty inactive.

By what measure has it been pretty inactive? The typhoon season was quite active and did an awful lot of damage

[Tombo]

The only points worth replying to.

This website has all the latest in solar activity.

SpaceWeather.com -- News and information about meteor showers, solar flares, auroras, and near-Earth asteroids

Any unexpected surges in sunspot numbers, I will notify this thread.

SIDC : Sunspot data - Graphics
(latest graph on sunspot numbers) - Not fancy but truthful

We will monitor Ireland's temperature record. I will get back back with 3 other locations that are random and isolated from each other on the globe.

Also will track tropical storms. The Southern Hemisphere season is over this month and its been below average and pretty inactive.

That is one of the bigger emabrrassments for the warmy alarmists.

Still no trend in tropical storms in number or total energy or normalised insured damages.

They thought they were onto a good thing when they went all balmy over Katrina.

Come to think of it, they did the same thing with sea ice when we had a couple of years of high melt in the Arctic and now they are backpeddling like mad.

Add it to the warmy catalogue of failures:

Tropical storms
Sea ice

[Cassandra Syndrome]

So just to narrow it down, you are expecting average temperatures in ireland to be colder than normal for the month of july excepting some kind of unexpected surge in solar activity?
Grand. If we can pick 4 other locations have something we can work with. I would suggest Tokyo Brazilia, Capetown, Chicago to give a wide geographic spread.

I was thinking of 1 location per continent. Ireland to represent Europe. 1 from North America, 1 from south America, 1 from Africa, 1 from Asia, Australia and Antarctica.

All must be rural weather stations. No cities allowed, which is fair considering that global cooling would be more apparent in urbanised centre measurement deviations.

I choose Ireland so that I will be monitoring it myself, correlating to the local station. Just to be sure.

I bet you 100 Carbon credits that the temperatures will decline this year.

[Akrasia]

I choose Ireland so that I will be monitoring it myself, correlating to the local station. Just to be sure.

What does that mean?
You're going to be looking out the window and if it's damp and overcast but the weather station says above average temperature you'll call shenanigans?

I bet you 100 Carbon credits that the temperatures will decline this year.

Define decline? Decline from the temperature in 2009? or decline from the 30 year average used by climatologists?

Remember, this is supposed to be a 100 year minimum solar activity with the sun being the major driver of climate. we should be looking at temperatures approaching what they were at their coldest in the early 20th century.