Electric cars and carbon taxes

[Al.]

Don't blame the poor innocent sparrows. It was the tits!

Yeah, they were just as guilty. But sparrows are still as resourceful, and there were more of those.

We know how to electrify the railways, but it's very expensive, and can hardly be justified in Ireland, where there are few tunnels, few railways in cities, and plenty of fresh air. Modern diesel engines are clean and efficient

No, the DMUs are not terribly efficient, and diesels will never be as efficient as electric motors on a railway (approx. 48 percent versus 97 percent, respectively). Continental railways continue to electrify, even the traditional corridors, and have raised the average speeds into the triple-digit range (in terms of MPH) on traditional railways when using tilting technology. The Irish government has talked of electrifying Dublin-Cork since the early 70s (perhaps earlier), but now is suddenly content to keep the top speed of express trains on that line at 100 mph, a benchmark reached by diesels in the 1960s.

[riven]

There are many ways to produce diesel fuel, and Ireland can be a producer.

In fact Ireland was a producer of diesel fuel up until a few years ago. Prior to the state sell off (or was it rebuy; I cannot remember) of its involvement with whitegate refinery in Cork, it was pumping out a lot of diesel. Upon change of ownership the process was changed over to make more valuable products and discontinue or at least reduce the amount of diesel produced.

That is why diesel has reached parity with petrol prices a few years ago.

[fiannafailure]

In fact Ireland was a producer of diesel fuel up until a few years ago. Prior to the state sell off (or was it rebuy; I cannot remember) of its involvement with whitegate refinery in Cork, it was pumping out a lot of diesel. Upon change of ownership the process was changed over to make more valuable products and discontinue or at least reduce the amount of diesel produced.

That is why diesel has reached parity with petrol prices a few years ago.

What do they make there now ?

[fiannafailure]

Interesting article in theIT on this subject.

GOVERNMENT targets for electric vehicles – including the plan to have 250,000 electrically powered cars on Irish roads by roads by 2020 – will not be met, because the Government is not putting the required “major money” into making electric cars affordable for motorists.

Are our electric targets just talk? - The Irish Times - Wed, Sep 16, 2009

[H]

Electric cars would be charged off the grid, as more renewables come on stream, the more environmentally friendly the cars will be. In addition close to 100% of the energy stored in the batteries goes directly to the motors turning the wheels, while the in internal combustion engine, only around 22% the enery released by the fuel goes directly to the wheel.

Actually this person says it better than me

Proponents of the electric car studiously avoid discussing the problem of refuelling If we want electric cars to have anything like the performance and versatility of internal combustion ones, they have to "refuel" reasonably quickly; the idea of exchangeable
battery packs is an environmental and practical minefield.

A 60-litre tankful of diesel equates to about 200 kilowatthours of electricity, assuming
the electrical energy is used three times as efficiently as the heat energy from diesel.
For argument's sake, let's say we want to be able to "refuel" in 12 minutes, four times as long as filling a tank with petrol. This would require an energy flow of 1 megawatt. In the UK, for example, you would need to multiply that value by six "pumps" at 10,000 filling stations, drawing 60 gigawatts between them. Where will you build all the necessary power stations, what will they run on, and where will you hide the transmission cables?

I find propenents of electric cars totally ignore the gigantic cost of rolling out the infrastructure required let alone the carbon cost of the infrastructure never mind that the cars have a uselelss range

[clareman51]

I see over on the Ecogeek website that Renault have launched 4 different versions of the electric car at a recent motor show. The ICE will be a minority player within the next 20 years.
This has a parallel with the advances in computer technology. For those of you old enough, remember the variety of languages available 30 years ago-Comal, Coral, Algol, Basic, BBM, Fortran, assembler, etc. And all written for 8-bit. And the early pioneers such as Clive Sinclair, Alan Sugar, etc (I think I still have an old ZX and a Commodore buried somewhere in my parents attic). And the famous Wang word processor. Most of those fell by the wayside as technology improved( except for DOS which shouldnt have survived), and the costs fell accordingly. An Apple in 1983 cost 3,500 punts-about the price of a small car. As the new car technology takes to the road, and it will, governments will as usual spend an inordinate amount of time and money catching up. I have no doubt that my children will be driving electric/hybrid/hydrogen cars as the norm.

[fiannafailure]

Actually this person says it better than me

Proponents of the electric car studiously avoid discussing the problem of refuelling If we want electric cars to have anything like the performance and versatility of internal combustion ones, they have to "refuel" reasonably quickly; the idea of exchangeable
battery packs is an environmental and practical minefield.

A 60-litre tankful of diesel equates to about 200 kilowatthours of electricity, assuming
the electrical energy is used three times as efficiently as the heat energy from diesel.
For argument's sake, let's say we want to be able to "refuel" in 12 minutes, four times as long as filling a tank with petrol. This would require an energy flow of 1 megawatt. In the UK, for example, you would need to multiply that value by six "pumps" at 10,000 filling stations, drawing 60 gigawatts between them. Where will you build all the necessary power stations, what will they run on, and where will you hide the transmission cables?

I find propenents of electric cars totally ignore the gigantic cost of rolling out the infrastructure required let alone the carbon cost of the infrastructure never mind that the cars have a uselelss range

And yet it must be done, and more importantly it can be done, not overnight but then the fossil infrastructure was not built overnight either.