politics in ireland - a closed shop

[croppyboy]

I've been doing a lot of thinking on this recently and am beginning to wonder if our electoral/political system is a bit of a closed shop.

It seems to me in order to engage in the process one must have a lot of time on ones hands which in turns means some other form of funding required.

So very difficult to get a look-in if one has to hold down an unrelated 9-5 post somewhere else (especially outside the constituency say).

Even if one was to get elected at local level there is token remuneration so one still has to hold down that 9-5 on top. Either that or kill yourself double jobbing by day and by night and see spouse or kids only when asleep...

So we end up with politicians who are either self-employed, semi-retired or independently wealthy (plus the teachers with all that time on their hands).. how many of the work-weary, commuting masses can aspire to join them without facing divorce/the sack from day job/breakdown..??

What is the answer? Is it possible? Are there any moves afoot to address this at any level?

[rockofcashel]

I've been doing a lot of thinking on this recently and am beginning to wonder if our electoral/political system is a bit of a closed shop.

It seems to me in order to engage in the process one must have a lot of time on ones hands which in turns means some other form of funding required.

So very difficult to get a look-in if one has to hold down an unrelated 9-5 post somewhere else (especially outside the constituency say).

Even if one was to get elected at local level there is token remuneration so one still has to hold down that 9-5 on top. Either that or kill yourself double jobbing by day and by night and see spouse or kids only when asleep...

So we end up with politicians who are either self-employed, semi-retired or independently wealthy (plus the teachers with all that time on their hands).. how many of the work-weary, commuting masses can aspire to join them without facing divorce/the sack from day job/breakdown..??

What is the answer? Is it possible? Are there any moves afoot to address this at any level?

Very difficult situation Croppy, and one that makes it very hard for people who work in the private sector. Of all the candidates standing in next years election in South Tipp, I am so far the only one declared who works in the private sector for an employer (Mattie Mc Grath is self employed). This makes it the hardest for myself to go on radio interviews, turn up at conferences during the week etc.

It is a bit unfair, but not sure how to get around it. One thing that should definitely be done however, and which I brought up at our Ard Fheis two years ago, would be to treat "public service" such as the attendance at council meetings or committees during working hours, similar to jury duty.

[ibis]

Be fair - when you say self-employed, you really mean either a business owner or a professional. For myself, as self-employed, I can definitely say that if I started in politics, I would be unable to do enough work to support my family.

[Marx]

A friend of mine a County Councillor finds it very difficult to balance his work commitments and council work. Because Council meetings are held by day then he has to take time off and is thereby using up his holiday entitlements for Council business

It is interesting to see how many Councillors are actually self employed or retired.

[croppyboy]

I think certain occupations are particularly suitable. Anything that involves meeting and greeting many people whilst based in the constituency. publican, farmer, auctioneer, shopkeeper, solicitor, accountants perhaps?

These all have the opportunity to engage with the electorate on a daily basis and can even progress their business in parallel.

rock that is an excellent idea re the jury service analagy. Would have to be mandatory so employers couldn't opt out. Still think there may be issues around promotion etc would depend on the ethos of your employer. Think a lot of employers would have difficulty with an employee heading away early to make meetings/canvass, excusing out of meetings to take calls from journalists/constituents etc. I have this difficulty already and am only a lowly activist (albeit with ambition

It would be interesting to see a job description for councillor. If one is expected to hold down a fulltime job (which one must to survive) what takes precedence council duties or normal occupation? E.g. Do you only accept calls from constituents outside working hours?

It also raises the question what value do we place on public representation certainly at local level. And it will continue to define the demographic elected until something changes.

rock re the other candidates 2 in my neck of the woods pulled out in last 12 months citing work pressures and conflicts. Anthony Creevey (FF, North Kildare) resigned from ticket and Tony O'Donnell (FG, South Kildare) declined to pursue nomination having steadily campaigned for some time. Now there may have been other factors at play behind the scenes but it was at least factor in both cases.

[the agent]

Cllr Darren Scully FG (kildare north) GE candidate is an engineer with a multinational, so he must be balancing work commitments with politics. Pascal Donoughe (dublin central) is also a paye worker and there a few others. I think if you are really commited you will find the time. A lot of Paye workers slump on the couch in front of the tv after the days work, so if you can motivate yourself to work in the evenings then you should be able to do it. I do think that you must need an understanding wife or even better be single. The hard thing for all parties is to motivate party workers to do things at weekends, as many would rather spend their weekends/free time doing their own thing. A lot of employers would be understanding if you needed time of work if you are on the council and some Cllrs have a flexi-time agreement with their bosses. I know plenty of guys who find the time to play golf when it suits, so if the hunger is there to succed in politics, there should be nothing stopping you. I have met anthony creevy FF (kildare Nth) and the reason why he pulled out was because he did not have the grassroot support of the party. Tony O'Donnell (FG) pulled out because FG HQ did not want him on the ticket because they are going to add some one well known shortly. It is the oldest trick in the book to cite work pressures when you know you won't win a seat and pull out.

[jady88]

Ireland is completely closed off, it is a fact. Most our politicans come from poltical families, Lenihans, Hannifans, Aherns, Kenny's, Enwrights.

this is one of the reasons i jumped ship from FG to the PDs

[Wolverine]

The O'Malleys?

[rockofcashel]

Cllr Darren Scully FG (kildare north) GE candidate is an engineer with a multinational, so he must be balancing work commitments with politics. Pascal Donoughe (dublin central) is also a paye worker and there a few others. I think if you are really commited you will find the time. A lot of Paye workers slump on the couch in front of the tv after the days work, so if you can motivate yourself to work in the evenings then you should be able to do it. I do think that you must need an understanding wife or even better be single. The hard thing for all parties is to motivate party workers to do things at weekends, as many would rather spend their weekends/free time doing their own thing. A lot of employers would be understanding if you needed time of work if you are on the council and some Cllrs have a flexi-time agreement with their bosses. I know plenty of guys who find the time to play golf when it suits, so if the hunger is there to succed in politics, there should be nothing stopping you. I have met anthony creevy FF (kildare Nth) and the reason why he pulled out was because he did not have the grassroot support of the party. Tony O'Donnell (FG) pulled out because FG HQ did not want him on the ticket because they are going to add some one well known shortly. It is the oldest trick in the book to cite work pressures when you know you won't win a seat and pull out.

Agent .. the most popular talk radio stations locally are on between 10 am and 12 am, which mix current affairs with light entertainment.

How am I supposed to a. listen to whats going on in the constituency or b. make myself available to the radio as much as they would like (they call you, if you continously are unavailable, they stop calling).

Thats a hell of a lot of media coverage you are at a disadvantage with.

Then their are local groups, who organise meetings durign working hours. If you refuse to go because you are working, then you are accused of ignoring them.

The current TD's and Senators cite this as being "part of their work", when it could be argued that they should be in the Dail legislating. Again, private sector workers are at a disadvantage.

Teachers, nurses, other public sector workers etc, who I go up against in Tipp, can take service breaks for years before an election, and still be ensured their job back if they are unsucessful. With me, it could be all or nothing, lose and you're unemployed as well.

Its a bit of a joke actually to talk about the Dail being representative of the people, when private sector workers, who contribute the most to the running of this country, are the least represented.

[rockofcashel]

Cllr Darren Scully FG (kildare north) GE candidate is an engineer with a multinational, so he must be balancing work commitments with politics. Pascal Donoughe (dublin central) is also a paye worker and there a few others. I think if you are really commited you will find the time. A lot of Paye workers slump on the couch in front of the tv after the days work, so if you can motivate yourself to work in the evenings then you should be able to do it. I do think that you must need an understanding wife or even better be single. The hard thing for all parties is to motivate party workers to do things at weekends, as many would rather spend their weekends/free time doing their own thing. A lot of employers would be understanding if you needed time of work if you are on the council and some Cllrs have a flexi-time agreement with their bosses. I know plenty of guys who find the time to play golf when it suits, so if the hunger is there to succed in politics, there should be nothing stopping you. I have met anthony creevy FF (kildare Nth) and the reason why he pulled out was because he did not have the grassroot support of the party. Tony O'Donnell (FG) pulled out because FG HQ did not want him on the ticket because they are going to add some one well known shortly. It is the oldest trick in the book to cite work pressures when you know you won't win a seat and pull out.

Agent .. the most popular talk radio stations locally are on between 10 am and 12 am, which mix current affairs with light entertainment.

How am I supposed to a. listen to whats going on in the constituency or b. make myself available to the radio as much as they would like (they call you, if you continously are unavailable, they stop calling).

Thats a hell of a lot of media coverage you are at a disadvantage with.

Then their are local groups, who organise meetings durign working hours. If you refuse to go because you are working, then you are accused of ignoring them.

The current TD's and Senators cite this as being "part of their work", when it could be argued that they should be in the Dail legislating. Again, private sector workers are at a disadvantage.

Teachers, nurses, other public sector workers etc, who I go up against in Tipp, can take service breaks for years before an election, and still be ensured their job back if they are unsucessful. With me, it could be all or nothing, lose and you're unemployed as well.

Its a bit of a joke actually to talk about the Dail being representative of the people, when private sector workers, who contribute the most to the running of this country, are the least represented.