Do Fine Gael actually want this Government to fall?

[Lloyd-Apjohn]

True, but only up to a point. Sometimes it is important that Ministers on European business be facilitated with pairs - because without them, the meetings can't take place. So there's not much value in wilfully p*ssing-off 26 other countries.

There is nothing that is discussed at a EU meeting that can't wait a day or a few hours if a Minister needs to be back in Dublin to vote and if a government loses a vote it does not mean there needs to be a general election - that is just the convention.

They've been doing that for some time - but again, people have to remember that the way to do that is NOT to throw the whole lot into the public domain at once, but to drip-feed it. That way each significant proposal gets plenty of airtime, discussion, analysis, etc. You can run billboard and leaflet campaigns around it, etc etc. Then, when you've got your media cycle out of it, you release another one. As I say, releasing the whole lot at one go means that the most interesting bit gets picked up, but everything else gets forgotten. And you've got the same media cycle, but used it to fire all your bullets. And now you've an empty holster, because media don't cover the same story twice.

But who can name any FG policy on anything - people don't even have the meres hint of what FG stands for - try asking a person sometime to name some of the more prominent FG policies.



Frank Flannery has already gone public on that.



On the contrary, that's exactly what FG DIDN'T do. They staked out clear positions on issues like benchmarking, which were seen as politically risky, but in fact established clear and understandable, and most of all, DISTINCTIVE policy positions.

Is there a single person in the country who voted FG because of its policy on bencmarking?



Indeed. But the opinion poll trend over the seven years since Kenny became leader has shown continual consolidation of those new votes. Every so often FG made a significant jump in the polls, then fell back a small bit, but basically consolidated around the new figure. Then a while later, they took another leap. It happened when they hit 25% for the first time in ages, then hit the upper 20s, then broke through the crucial 30% mark, then consolidated there, and then leapt into the 35%-plus region. And they now appear to be consolidating around that figure. And growth like that is much more solid than a sudden 10% leap - because if voters come to you that quickly, they can go away just as fast.



Firstly, most former FG ministers who are still TDs are not claiming their ministerial pensions. But also, the problem is that as long as its legal for TDs to claim those expenses and pensions, FG can't really force anyone not to accept anything. There's clearly a legal issue there. As for expenses with receipts, there's no point in that. The Dept of Finance will just hand the receipts back, as they've no use for them.

If Mivhael Noon and Richard Bruton and Enda Kenny have stopped claiming pension then let them say so. If they have not - which they haven't - then they need to justify why they haven't and trotting out that 'they don't have to' is not good enough.



But John Bruton isn't an FG representative. He's not a member of the parliamentary party, so basically he's not beholden to them in any way.

This simply will not do - it is as wrong for Brutal to be claiming a pension on top of his EU salary just as much as it's wrong for Ahern to be doing the same or that FitzGerald, Corgrave, Reynolds etc are paid salaries in line with what Biffo gets now and now what the salary was at the time - I wish my father's pension was linked to the person doing his job now and not what he was paid when he retired.

No, that's silly. When in power they can change the law. In Opposition they can't.



On the contrary, the main similarity is that in 2007 here, just like in the UK in 1992, at the last minute the voters gave the government the benefit of their doubts about the opposition - and quickly realised the error of their ways. The exact same thing is happening here. If as a government your only card to play is that "whatever else about us, we've put money in your pockets", and you hang onto power as a result, then the last thing you want is a crippling recession, record budget deficits, record unemployment, etc. It happened there, and now its happening here.



I disagree. The electorate are only lazy when they're disinterested. If they have an emotion - be it anger, satisfaction or whatever - they turn out to vote. Turnout will be high at the next election.

Will it? Try having a chat about politics with someone who is not a political nerd or who doesn't know much about current affairs.

[Congalltee]

There is an odd fatalism with FG.
At committee stage the vote on NAMA was 77-73.
Today, the vote was 81-65.

So the Government was able to muster nearly all of its TDs but the opposition TDs has someting more important to do (Deputies F McGrath and O Enright did) than vote against NAMA.

It does not exactly instill confidence in the alternative (don't get me wrong, I will still vote for the mother-F'ers just to get FF out and end the single party state)

[kerdasi amaq]

NAMA is a bill that should be submitted to the People in a referendum. After they'll be the ones who'll be paying through the nose for it.