Declan Ganley - A tribute I think!

[MissTeschmacher]

Thanks West's Awake for your superb post.

[west'sawake]

See now, that's where it just gets silly.

Read up on the history of the EU and the men who were the driving force behind its foundation.

You'll find that all of them were committed anti-fascists, some actively fought against the Nazis, some were imprisoned by the Nazis, others by Mussolini, others contributed greatly to the Allied war effort.

You'll also find that some of the key figures behind the formation of the EU were deeply committed Catholics who were greatly influenced by late nineteenth- and early twentieth-century Catholic social teaching.

The EU owes a lot more to Rerum Novarum and Quadragesimo Anno than it does to Gleichshaltung.

Fair point Marmurr but the E.U has drifted from that vision. You can be quite sure that Rerum Novarum and Quadragessmo Anno do not endorse a secular vision, or institutions that reject the principle of subsidiarity and national sovereignty.

It went too far for me when the European Parliament voted not to accept the will of the Irish people. That is not the Spirit of the founding fathers. Nor is it to be seen in a ECJ that has strayed from its original remit to be a watchdog for the single market. There is an inevitable momentum towards the shelling out of national institutions as all move into the same gear and hand over more and more competencies. It is the logic of a monetary union having to be a tighter poltical and fiscal union too yet the reality is that there are different tiers, different speeds and paces of change within each nation and all cannot move forward at the one speed.

I really think we need to catch our breaths here and each nation have a real debate on the E.U. for democracy's sake. Even if Lisbon is passed the next time, there is a substantial body of opinion that will still be unrepresented. There is no moderate centre right party that argues against Lisbon, no one to fill that vacuum and that does concern me.

[Toland]

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[ActuallyYourWrong]

A sense of perspective would be nice occasionally when talking about Ireland's position in Europe. There are over 80 million Germans alone.

More democracy in Europe means less of a voice for Ireland.

And that's how it should be!

Your comment is a disgrace and shows why we need to question Ireland's position in the EU.

Ireland should avoid being swallowed up in a federal EU. If I was German I would vote in favour of Lisbon, as I am Irish it's not in my best interest and will vote NO again and again.

Germans have always tried to take over Europe only this time true forced politics, blackmail and bribery.

Vote NO.

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[ActuallyYourWrong]

Cos I don't think the average voter in Baltinglass has a right to a greater voice in Europe than the equivalent in Grünau?

I think you need to explain how my view is a disgrace.

Well the EU is not a country (yet). So this QMV is a scam.

We should not be in a position of being over ruled by any other country.

We share nothing in common with Germany and France.

We share no culture, no history and no language.

We started no wars.

Back to being a trading block is all we need.

No need to 'pool' sovereignty. The EEC was fine.

Remember, all Empires collapse, and when they do they leave new disputes, new borders, new wars, new problems.

Plenty of evidence can be found today of the above.

[Mar Tweedy]

Germans have always tried to take over Europe only this time true forced politics, blackmail and bribery.

Vote NO.

Ah so thats the reason German savers financed so many of our regional and social infrastructure projects from the 1980s until recently and thats why German savers are financing our deficit and banks at the moment. The blumin cheek of 'em.

[Mar Tweedy]

West's awake, your chosen username was prescient given your later involvement with the canvass - or was that why you chose it?

Your tribute to Declan Ganley is a little misty-eyed for my tastes but its still a good read and a point well-made. I'm not a fan of his politics or style but I respect him for having a viewpoint and taking a risk and standing up for it. I also liked that in the dying hours of his campaign we got a glimpse of a lighter, dryer, funnier Mr Ganley which is likely more representative of who he is than some of the more fantastical portrayals of him by his detractors. It is interesting that just because he represented a different viewpoint he was subject to personal attacks. But I guess that is a trap we all fall into sometimes so it doesn't mean a conspiracy against him or that being pro-european is anti-democratic. He gave it a go, it worked for a while and then didn't, and now he's leaving the political stage to move on. Stating your case and then holding it lightly - nice.

[west'sawake]

Paranoia will destroy ya

I agree, this kind of nonsense will not help those opposed to the Lisbon Treaty.