<b>Fianna Fail & the Liberal(s) Agenda<b>

[TommyO'Brien]

On the contrary, I will bring up relevant points, including the implications of provisions of the Referendum Act (empowering the Oireachtas to end the Justice veto) and Lisbon Treaty (the Charter of Fundamental Rights) for abortion.

Untrue.

I have personally called for a slight relaxation of the controls to allow rape-victims to have an abortion, while opposing abortion-on-demand. The Charter refers to the right to privacy

In EU law. Abortion is not an EU law matter.

- the same basis for the Roe v Wade Supreme Court ruling in 1974 that imposed legalised abortion throughout the US. It also talks about the right to life.

In EU law. Abortion is not an EU law matter.

That opens the Pandora's Box of where life begins, and you can be sure that both pro-choice and pro-life groups will try to use the Charter in the ECJ to get their way in this country. Both will argue that the Charter supports their stance, though personally I am more inclined to believe it will impose abortion on demand in Ireland.

Now, before the inevitable citing of the Maastricht Protocol on abortion, let me remind you that the word abortion does not appear in Article 40.3.3. of the Irish Constitution. It only mentions the "right to life of the unborn" and the equal right to life of the mother. The X-Case ruling 1992 further complicates the picture, as it allowed for abortion in cases of a risk of suicide. In that context, it's possible the ECJ could decide that relaxing the abortion-regime in Ireland on the basis of the Charter does not violate the Maastricht Protocol.

Dear God in heaven, FT. Do you seriously know so little about the topic or are you just spoofing?

You seem to be letting your imagination run riot and fantasising about nonsense. You manage to blurr EU law, Irish law, Article 40.3.3., the X case, the Irish supreme court and the ECJ into some mish mash or legal absurdities that looks like it has been put through a blender. it don't think you even know what EU law is and what the ECJ is, let alone the basic elementary facts of Irish constitutional law, what competences are, or anything else to do with abortion in Ireland.

Honestly, FT, what you wrote is the biggest set of hogmash imaginable. Even Libertas - who specialise in wild fantasies and elementary ignorance - couldn't have come up with greater rubbish. This whole issue has been explained to you repeatedly by numerous posters for a year now, and still you come up with nonsense that would reduce any lawyer who knows anything about the topic to hysterics.

[boomdog]

Still leaves Fianna Fail's tacit support for euthanasia, abortion, and foetal-destructive stem cell research untouched.

[parakeet]

I am always disgusted by the vile anti-choice filth who continue to deny women the choice to terminate unwanted pregnancies. I think FF joining the ELDR is opportunistic in the extreme, but they are already onboard on the economics side, so it makes some sense.

But as others have already said, abortion has nothing to do with the Lisbon Treaty.

On a personal note, I look forward to the day when we have Irish abortions, performed by Irish-based doctors, in Irish hospitals. It is sickening that awful selfish people wish to control the bodies of women. That will have to be changed by us, the people of Ireland, in a referendum in this country. We are the progressive side of this debate and the stride of progress may be slow sometimes, but one day we will have free legal safe abortion in Ireland.