3rd Level Fees will be brought back in just after election is over

[Proposition Joe]

Proposition Joe, people in working class areas need to change their whole mentality towards, my girlfriend left school at 17 and is now 30. I f she is made redundant she will find it hard to get another job so I've been trying to encourage her to do the leaving cert.

Also off-topic, but if she baulks at the idea of going back doing the leaving with all the youngsters, she might want to consider doing a third level course with the Open University instead. No entry level qualifications required.

Forget all the guff about only prisoners, mental patients and bored housewives in the OU. A much younger demographic is taking courses with the OU these days, largely driven by the new university fees regime in the UK. And their degrees are not dismissed as bog-roll substitute, as least not by UK employers in any case. BTW I have no association with them apart from having done a few courses as a hobby.

[True Republican]

Thanks Prop Joe about the open university Idea, but if she ever wants to go for a management role in what she's doing at the moment she will need a leaving cert, she works as a chef in a private hospital and this hospital may go bang in the next couple of years. My girlfriend comes from a working class background and two of her siblings left school early, only two of her siblings will have done the leaving cert, that is ridicoulous.

[wombat]

Time for the majority of urban working class to change their value system towards education.

I would say that a majority have. Most people now do their Leaving cert. It takes a greater effort to stay in school if all your mates are working but I know quite a few who were the 1st in their family to attend 3rd level and while it took effort on their part, their parents made the main sacrifice.

[Proposition Joe]

Nonsense, it was a joke before the current system, the only ones paying were PAYE. I saw millionaires on full grants and no fees and others struggling.
I would pay for it all from tax and tax the richer harder.
The current system could be more progressive for getting lower starters into professions and I doubt he will return us to what we had before.
The move by labour was the best thing they ever did, particularly for lower and middle income PAYE.

We don't agree on much, but I'm ad idem with you on this.

I was in college in the late 80s / early 90s and the place was crawling with the sons of big farmers and self-employed professionals all on full grants. Anyone who could manipulate their income to get the grant, did so.

Any new fees regime will be open to similar abuse. And Batt's promise to "family proof" the income thresholds is just bull. In order to raise significant revenue from fees, a significant proportion of students will have to pay. The weight of numbers dictate that the lower middle class PAYE earners will be caught in the net.

[True Republican]

I would say that a majority have. Most people now do their Leaving cert. It takes a greater effort to stay in school if all your mates are working but I know quite a few who were the 1st in their family to attend 3rd level and while it took effort on their part, their parents made the main sacrifice.

Wombat, I'm aware that a majority of kids in working class areas do the Leaving Cert these days, what I'm saying is that a majority of people in working class areas don't seem to value the importance of going onto third level education. Kids need to stop conforming just because their mates don't do the leaving cert doesn't mean that they shouldn't sit the Leaving Cert. All my family went onto third level education, I started 10 years ago when there were free fees and I believe I would have been more dedicated to my course if fees needed to be paid. I also believe that some parents have an inferiority complex towards third level education and therefore don't encourage their children to do a third level course.

[wombat]

I also believe that some parents have an inferiority complex towards third level education and therefore don't encourage their children to do a third level course.

Not sure its an inferiority complex as much as not seeing the value in a 3rd level course. Certainly its a lot easier and more common now than it was years ago. The other side of the coin - my grandmother used to boast to her neighbours about her student grandson.

[True Republican]

The other side of the coin - my grandmother used to boast to her neighbours about her student grandson.

Fair play to your granmother.