Lech Walesa to address Libertas Convention

[marmurr1916]

Any idea why their 'logo' is two lizards? Or maybe they're gecko's?

Apparently, the Salamander is a symbol of the Renaissance (and looks like the EU turned upside down!):

• • The salamander is a symbol of the ‘Renaissance’. Renaissance is an important historical reference for us - a period marking the transition from medieval to modern times, a humanistic movement reviving intellectual, artistic, philosophical achievements which spread throughout Europe.

  
  

  • The salamander symbolizes cold/rationality versus fire/extremism. In ancient myths, it was said to extinguish fire. Newropeans is a rationally conceived project (time limited, outside right/left divide, only EU elections). It is a tool, an artefact, a project -to oppose burning trends of nationalism, xenophobia or racism which are fuelled by non rationale fears and feelings.

  
  

  • The salamander symbolizes courage and indestructibility, hence our willingness to question existing structures. It also symbolises ‘fragility’- and Newropeans is also still a tiny animal.

  
  

  • The salamander belongs to our common cultural legacy, just like democracy is part of our political legacy.

  
  
  

  • And, last but not least, look at a map of the EU turned upside down. You will discover that the EU 27 looks like a salamander: head (Spain and Portugal), forelegs (Italy and British Isles), rear legs (Bulgaria/Romania and Denmark), tail (Scandinavia) and body (the other member states). So the current EU actually shapes a salamander...

[ibis]

It is a tool, an artefact, a project -to oppose burning trends of nationalism, xenophobia or racism which are fuelled by non rationale fears and feelings.

That's an interesting point. Ganley, I think, is trying to do things the other way round - to harness the 'burning trends' to create a pan-European party.*

*[SIZE="1"]please note, I am not suggesting Ganley is either racist, nationalist, or xenophobic[/SIZE]

[marmurr1916]

and if he gets the same result as he did in 1990 he'll win

see how easy it is marmurr to edit a persons bio to suit ones argument

Did you read this piece on what Walesa means to Poles today?

Whatever his past achievements, he's now a divisive figure in Poland, hated by many supporters of the LPR (Ganley's target market in Poland) as an 'Lech Bolek', as a 'traitor' and he's no longer regarded as a credible political figure by many younger voters.

As I said earlier in this thread, eaten bread is soon forgotten.

Remember what happened to Churchill in the first post-WWII UK general election.

[marmurr1916]

That's an interesting point. Ganley, I think, is trying to do things the other way round - to harness the 'burning trends' to create a pan-European party.

And, by all accounts, he's succeeded to a certain degree:

And Senor Duran won one of the biggest cheers of day during his address, when he announced: "I want to find with Declan a new Europe, a white Europe, not a black Europe."

This went down a storm with a large section of the crowd.

But alas for the enthusiasts, his remark wasn't as black and white at it seemed.

"Blind persons know very well what is the difference between black and white because we always live inside the darkness. So I don't want the next Europe to be dark Europe," he explained, to more muted applause.

[myksav]

Apparently, the Salamander is a symbol of the Renaissance (and looks like the EU turned upside down!):

OK, a salamander, not a lizard. Still a primitive creature that hasn't evolved much beyond its original form.

My take on that group, Newropeans, is that they want something like Lisbon+, a country called EU.

Not my cup of tea.

[marmurr1916]

OK, a salamander, not a lizard. Still a primitive creature that hasn't evolved much beyond its original form.

My take on that group, Newropeans, is that they want something like Lisbon+, a country called EU.

Not my cup of tea.

They are pretty federalist in their outlook.

Asides from their 16 Propositions which form their core policy, they've got more detailed Programmes on a range of issues:

Whatever you might think of their ideas and policies (and, unlike Libertas, they actually have policies), at least they've been adopted through democratic debate and public consultation:

Newropeans is the only trans-European political movement which involves its members directly into the development of its programme and in the major political positions it takes. Discussions and votes are held during our Annual Assembly, Newropeans’ Agora, and on our intranet - which has become a testing ground for the future European online democracy. Until the elections to the European Parliament in 2009, Newropeans will develop a full programme including the future shape of a democratised European Union as well as outlines for the major policy fields the EU should be active in. The guideline for reflection on all these issues is how to enable 500 million citizens in 27 countries and of a multitude of cultural and linguistic backgrounds take democratic and efficient decisions together.






Newropeans’ members since June 2006 adopted the decisions on:

1. a [COLOR=#0000ff]European government[/COLOR];
2. [COLOR=#0000ff]European Immigration and Integration Policy[/COLOR];
3. [COLOR=#0000ff]Education[/COLOR];
4. an [COLOR=#0000ff]International Policy of the EU[/COLOR];
5. [COLOR=#0000ff]On strategic partnerships[/COLOR];
6. [COLOR=#0000ff]Position on socio-economic questions[/COLOR];
7. [COLOR=#0000ff]European defence[/COLOR];
8. [COLOR=#0000ff]Israël/Palestine[/COLOR];
9. [COLOR=#0000ff]Voting age at 16[/COLOR];
10. [COLOR=#0000ff]European agricultural policy[/COLOR];
11. [COLOR=#0000ff]Evaluation of EU programs[/COLOR];
12. [COLOR=#0000ff]Environment, Energy, Agriculture and Climate[/COLOR].

The programme development of Newropeans started out from Newropeans [COLOR=#0000ff]16 Proposals for rendering the European Union more democratic and for meeting the challenges of the XXIst° Century[/COLOR]. These propositions were the result of a unique debate in Europe, which directly associated over 10000 citizens in 100 towns and 25 countries during Newropeans’ first Democracy Marathon in 2002/2003. Since then, Newropeans continues the process of conversing with citizens in order to build a complete programme covering all the major questions which touch all 500 million Europeans, in a way that systematically associates citizens and the actors involved in the development, application and evaluation of EU policies that touch them.

They've produced a table showing the electoral law requirements for new political parties in all 27 EU member-states:

http://www.newropeans.eu/IMG/pdf/tabel_eng.pdf

[ibis]

OK, a salamander, not a lizard. Still a primitive creature that hasn't evolved much beyond its original form.

Funnily enough, the salamander has been evolving for exactly the same length of time as humans. It simply reached a stable form rather sooner.

[myksav]

Funnily enough, the salamander has been evolving for exactly the same length of time as humans. It simply reached a stable form rather sooner.

Ibis, salamanders are Cambrian/Permian creatures and fossil records show little evolution beyond that period.
Humans haven't been around that long. We're still evolving. Just very slowly.

[marmurr1916]

Ibis, salamanders are Cambrian/Permian creatures and fossil records show little evolution beyond that period.
Humans haven't been around that long. We're still evolving. Just very slowly.

This is what I love about this site.

A thread starts out being about Lech and Libertas and ends up being about lizard-looking creatures.

If David Icke gets to hear about the Newropeans...

[OMahonyMunster]

Has anyone noticed that caroline Simons poster have a image of her with two flags behind her head that look like the Virgin Mary's veil?