Coalition litmus test for election 09/10/11/12?

[PhoenixIreland]

How do people feel about a litmus test for the electorate next time?

For individual voters: If a party leader does not explicitly rule out, in all circumstances, without exceptions, coalition with FF, they don't get your vote or your transfers (for those people not already FF voters that is)

and/or

All party leaders state clearly before the election that they will not enter coalition with FF. Thus everyone would follow what Labour did in 2007.

I realize that had this commitment been in place in 2007 we would have a third interparty government now (FG-Lab-Green-PD-SF-IND), and no I don't think that would be unstable in the least, all but SF agree on economic policy (which they could not hope to affect with their small mandate anyway), and with most social policies you'd find broad agreement across those parties in terms of what direction to go, and clearly the Greens are more than willing to just sit there and do what they're told. Lets also not forget that back in far more depressed and unstable times when coaition was brand spanking new, we had 7 party governments with independent ministers that lasted longer than some one and two party governments in the 1980s and 1990s.

I don't include the idea of independents entering into such a pact because, though there have been exceptions of indos who looked after their area and had a vision of national policy, most are political prostitutes who will deal with whoever funnels the most pork barrel spending into their constituency. Pre-election pledges with them unrelated to their constituency are quickly abandoned in search of this pork (exhibit A: The Shannon pledge they signed then ignored in 2007) and half of them are FFers in all but name in any case, perhaps waiting before re-entering the party to take advantage of loopholes in the rules which might allow them to claim more than the average industrial wage in expenses when they do re-join...but I digress...


Labour and FG doing this on their own is not likely to be enough, there will always be a microparty and/or slosh of pork hungry independents ready to make a deal with the devil.

Gilmore seems to be leaving the options open once again, and I'm not sure why. Perhaps he thinks that if the options are open Labour can play FF and FG off each other for the best deal, in the event of some kind of tie, I don't think this scenario has ever presented itself, and as long as the microparties and indos are around I don't think it ever will.

In 1997 there was a pledge not to go in with FF (Result: crappy numbers)
In 2002 there was no pledge not to go in with FF (Result: crappy numbers)
In 2007 there was a pledge not to go in with FF (Result: crappy numbers)

Although the 1997 result can be seen as punishment for going in with FF before when we said we would not, this was breaking a promise point blank, on the other two occasions, having a firm no or an open ended policy made no difference whatsoever, so I don't see why Gilmore changed the stance.

So why does it matter to me one way or another if it has no effect?

1. Next time, if the economy is still in bits, it will have an effect as the electorate will want FF out, on the other occasions FF was not associated with economic disaster as they are now.
2. The policies of the other parties, including FG, are far more compatible with social democracy than FFs which is the polar opposite to Social Democracy in nearly every case. I have never believed they are just political pragmatists who will "go with whatever keeps them in power"
3. Parties that go into coalition with FF suffer. We suffered in 1997, the PDs are now extinct because they got too cosy in govt with FF and failed to maintain a separate identity or develop their organization.
4. As I said on another post in more detail, I don't think the PDs got any more out of FF than FF were going to give anyway given the 80s+ trend towards neoliberal economics was a global force and was always more compatible with FFs post-Lemass ideology....and the Greens got nothing of real substance out of their deal either, so you don't gain anything from this sacrifice other than collective responsibility for FFs mis-governance* while you sit there with your few bred crumbs from page 26 of your manifesto, a few light bulb laws or percentage increases in certain obscure areas, your taking heat for FF mismanagement of govt departments you have no control over.

[SIZE="2"]*what? I can invent words if I want to! I feel embiggened by it, it's all very cromulant.[/SIZE]

I can already hear the FG posters saying the other parties having this pledge is not nessicary as the tide is in favor of a FG-Lab govt next time, but wasn't it last time as well? Deja Vu a bit isn't it? Remember how happy FG was at the 2004 locals and how it meant they'd cruize to victory in 07? Remember how that almost actually happened? but what stopped it? the microparties!
FG not wanting to go in with SF, and the Greens wanting to go in with FF more.

Finally, if the economy somehow turns around before the next election it will be much harder to form any alternative government and every TDs vote will count, there is also the chance that people, despite all their "rabble rabble" will vote FF in large numbers anyway, making it harder as in the other scenario to form an alternative govt, or voters may fall for the classic trick of voting for the local FF TD even thought they don't like the party, lets not forget the people of Galway were voting for them as they were drinking poisoned water....or maybe thats WHY they were voting for them...

Anyway, thus concludes my wandering, meandering ramble....thoughts?

[RocheFG09]

not how democracy works.

[PhoenixIreland]

not how democracy works.

Ahh ffsake don't respond to a huge post with that bollox

[Big Bobo]

not how democracy works.

how would you define democracy?

[Factorem]

Any party who comes out early and declares they'll never go into coalition with FF would bump themselves up about 10 points on my popularity scale.