Article 27 & Referendum On Fiscal Pact

[edifice.]

Anything to this?

Article 27

This Article applies to any Bill, other than a Bill expressed to be a Bill containing a proposal for the amendment of this Constitution, which shall have been deemed, by virtue of Article 23 hereof, to have been passed by both Houses of the Oireachtas.
1. A majority of the members of Seanad Éireann and not less than one-third of the members of Dáil Éireann may by a joint petition addressed to the President by them under this Article request the President to decline to sign and promulgate as a law any Bill to which this article applies on the ground that the Bill contains a proposal of such national importance that the will of the people thereon ought to be ascertained.

[statsman]

Anything to this?

Article 47
1. Every proposal for an amendment of this Constitution which is submitted by Referendum to the decision of the people shall, for the purpose of Article 46 of this Constitution, be held to have been approved by the people, if, upon having been so submitted, a majority of the votes cast at such Referendum shall have been cast in favour of its enactment into law.
2. 1° Every proposal, other than a proposal to amend the Constitution, which is submitted by Referendum to the decision of the people shall be held to have been vetoed by the people if a majority of the votes cast at such Referendum shall have been cast against its enactment into law and if the votes so cast against its enactment into law shall have amounted to not less than thirty-three and one-third per cent. of the voters on the register.

[drummed]

Anything to this?

I know you'll never get a majority of the Seanad re any EU treaty at present so what's your point?

[edifice.]

I know you'll never get a majority of the Seanad re any EU treaty at present so what's your point?

I think what's interesting in this move is the potential problem it may pose for FF. I've noticed their distinct unease in calling for a referendum taking comfort in the Govt's numbers and perhaps hiding behind the decision of the AG and/or the decision of the SC. It will be interesting to see how they instruct their representatives on this one.

[LgCastell]

this could be an interesting route ... the Tech Group need 55 TDs to support this ...numbers looking like

FF19
SF 14
Soc 2
PBP 2
Ind 15

Thats 52

Then you look to the Gov parties and theres Naughten, Penrose Broughnan and Nulty without the whip. Out of those i could see the latter two support the motion. O'Riordan has stated he would be in favour of a ref and will be pressured to support...

The interesting thing about this is that its a direct petition to the President rather than a vote in the Dail therefore some like Riordan and others might not feel as pressured as if it was a vote against the whip in the dail ...

The seanad they are short one of a majority I think so will need to try and tempt another over ...I think if they get the Dail numbers to stack up they should be able to get the seanad ...

[statsman]

this could be an interesting route ... the Tech Group need 55 TDs to support this ...numbers looking like

FF19
SF 14
Soc 2
PBP 2
Ind 15

Thats 52

Then you look to the Gov parties and theres Naughten, Penrose Broughnan and Nulty without the whip. Out of those i could see the latter two support the motion. O'Riordan has stated he would be in favour of a ref and will be pressured to support...

The interesting thing about this is that its a direct petition to the President rather than a vote in the Dail therefore some like Riordan and others might not feel as pressured as if it was a vote against the whip in the dail ...

The seanad should be no problem

This would be a petition of a matter of public interest, not on changing the constitution. As a result, it would require one third of the total electorate, or, say, 70% of the vote on the day, to veto the new law. What mileage is there in such a total waste of public money and time for any sane politicial party, group or individual?

[edifice.]

this could be an interesting route ... the Tech Group need 55 TDs to support this ...numbers looking like

FF19
SF 14
Soc 2
PBP 2
Ind 15

Thats 52

Then you look to the Gov parties and theres Naughten, Penrose Broughnan and Nulty without the whip. Out of those i could see the latter two support the motion. O'Riordan has stated he would be in favour of a ref and will be pressured to support...

The interesting thing about this is that its a direct petition to the President rather than a vote in the Dail therefore some like Riordan and others might not feel as pressured as if it was a vote against the whip in the dail ...

The seanad they are short one of a majority I think so will need to try and tempt another over ...I think if they get the Dail numbers to stack up they should be able to get the seanad ...

The point was also made on the 1 O'Clock News that perhaps some Senators may run with this in Light of Kenny seeking its abolition. At the very least it should make life unconfortable for the fence sitters. Another interesting point as raised by Richard Crowley on PrimeTime: does FF's call for a referendum automatically mean they'll vote against the Fiscal Pact?

[Rufty]

I think what's interesting in this move is the potential problem it may pose for FF. I've noticed their distinct unease in calling for a referendum taking comfort in the Govt's numbers and perhaps hiding behind the decision of the AG and/or the decision of the SC. It will be interesting to see how they instruct their representatives on this one.

You're a couple of days behind the news it seems.
FF threatening to force referendum on EU treaty | Irish Examiner

Fianna Fáil are actively calling for a referendum however that does not mean that the party are currently in favour nor against the proposed treaty as, quite simply, nobody has yet seen the final text. I'll reserve my own personal judgement until I've had a chance to read it for myself.

[edifice.]

You're a couple of days behind the news it seems.
FF threatening to force referendum on EU treaty | Irish Examiner

Fianna Fáil are actively calling for a referendum however that does not mean that the party are currently in favour nor against the proposed treaty as, quite simply, nobody has yet seen the final text. I'll reserve my own personal judgement until I've had a chance to read it for myself.

But it seems that its Pringle who's actually putting the challenge to the rest to actually sign up for it. There's a distinct hesitancy in the upper echelons of FF re the call for a referendum and being opposed to the actual pact.

[Rufty]

But it seems that its Pringle who's actually putting the challenge to the rest to actually sign up for it. There's a distinct hesitancy in the upper echelons of FF re the call for a referendum and being opposed to the actual pact.

If you read the article you see that two days ago in the Seanad Mark Daly called on his fellow senators to support this measure and Martin confirmed after that this was Fianna Fáil's position. Pringle is jumping on the bandwagon now and attempting to take the reign to generate some popular support for himself seeing as he's been quiet enough for a while now. He of course is being helped in appearing this way by various news agencies completely ignoring Daly's speech two days before Pringle's press release.