Now I know how anti-Lisbon supporters feel ...

[Half Nelson]

Heck, me, you, tonic, and He3...

And I 'liked' you.

shudder

[Rugger]

I think it is a cheap shot to reduce Judges pay considering the Gov. has busted several (self declared ) pay limations - advisers and the new head of the ESB.

Very dangerous to give politicians the right to call individuals to book and not themselves. Why not put the best procedures in place and if any query arises to national prominance - one investigating magistrate with all necessary powers and a time limit on investigation?

[ibis]

And I 'liked' you.

shudder

I 'liked' He3!

[toconn]

Hmm. My problem with that is that if the majority of voters in the country foolishly choose to vote in FF. there's nothing I can do about it. And the majority of voters in the country have foolishly chosen to vote in FF repeatedly since the beginning of the state.

I know where you're coming from there ! and I don't like it either , but we have to start somewhere . All I ever hear is " but what can we do about it " , well here you're chance , vote in some proper people and get something done. A tough call mind..

[ibis]

I know where you're coming from there ! and I don't like it either , but we have to start somewhere . All I ever hear is " but what can we do about it " , well here you're chance , vote in some proper people and get something done. A tough call mind..

Well, when all is said and done I don't expect anything immediate or drastic as a result of the amendment. It's an erosion of rights that will affect only those called in front of inquiries - although, contrary to the propaganda being peddled that such inquiries are all about "the golden circle", the case this all stems from involved an ordinary Garda, and inquiries will certainly involve people much more humble than Seanie Fitz - and only to a degree. As a precedent, though, it's still very bad, and as a tool to place in the hands of bad governments (I don't mean evil, particularly, just self-serving and stupid) it's also pretty bad, because it relies on the Oireachtas deciding not to use it badly, rather than being constrained from doing so.

I admit that what scares me most is how willing some people are to only see it in terms of the people they want to punish right now, and how little appreciation there is of what it means to give up rights to the government. After all, who do people think individual's rights were won from in the first place?

[toconn]

Well, when all is said and done I don't expect anything immediate or drastic as a result of the amendment. It's an erosion of rights that will affect only those called in front of inquiries - although, contrary to the propaganda being peddled that such inquiries are all about "the golden circle", the case this all stems from involved an ordinary Garda, and inquiries will certainly involve people much more humble than Seanie Fitz - and only to a degree. As a precedent, though, it's still very bad, and as a tool to place in the hands of bad governments (I don't mean evil, particularly, just self-serving and stupid) it's also pretty bad, because it relies on the Oireachtas deciding not to use it badly, rather than being constrained from doing so.

understand all lot of the points made ibis , but you have to believe there are representatives even in this present Dail that have good intentions and can start to use the process to good effect , if it goes through of course. Look bad governments happen , but they are elected nonetheless and that has to be the basis or else we are onto some other form of rule ??? one thing that annoys the hell out of me is that a lot of people take the position " nothing to do with me , or what can I do " ... well time to step up or lose any chance of redress. What is going to happen if nothing changes , I will tell you...nothing ! the elite have this country by the balls alright !

I admit that what scares me most is how willing some people are to only see it in terms of the people they want to punish right now, and how little appreciation there is of what it means to give up rights to the government. After all, who do people think individual's rights were won from in the first place?

[ger12]

I admit that what scares me most is how willing some people are to only see it in terms of the people they want to punish right now, and how little appreciation there is of what it means to give up rights to the government. After all, who do people think individual's rights were won from in the first place?

Yep