Has Enda Kenny actually won this election indirectly

[The Earl of Desmond]

Just wondering seeing as whatever deal Bertie cobbles together it will go from one crisis to another - it is not 1997 again. Now the economy seems to be slowing down and job losses are being announced and for each set of direct job losses there are more indirect jobs at risk too.

So all Enda and FG have to do is wait for 18 months or 2 year and learn the lessons from the campaign and get their message across far clearer next time and with some poor economic news - obviously we are going back to the 1980s but it might make people think the economy won't magically grow all the time under FF - he can argue the case that FF have made Ireland uncompetitive and hammer home the health message and other issues.

Also it gives the new FG TDs time to bed in and work their asses off on the ground making sure they have a solid base for next time.

[Maximus]

Just wondering seeing as whatever deal Bertie cobbles together it will go from one crisis to another - it is not 1997 again. Now the economy seems to be slowing down and job losses are being announced and for each set of direct job losses there are more indirect jobs at risk too.

So all Enda and FG have to do is wait for 18 months or 2 year and learn the lessons from the campaign and get their message across far clearer next time and with some poor economic news - obviously we are going back to the 1980s but it might make people think the economy won't magically grow all the time under FF - he can argue the case that FF have made Ireland uncompetitive and hammer home the health message and other issues.

Also it gives the new FG TDs time to bed in and work their asses off on the ground making sure they have a solid base for next time.

FF were in power for 20 years before Kenny, we'll be in power a long time after he's gone, Kenny can think what likes.... we couldnt care less.

[Apparatchik]

And the save Kenny's ass campaign just gets more and more bizarre

[Fr. Hank Tree]

No. Maybe the defeat for FG will be a blessing in disguise for the party in the long run due to circumstances, but no, Kenny has failed.

[rockofcashel]

I was just thinking the same myself.

This is akin to Liverpool fans claiming that they won this years Premiership, because last year, they were 30 points behind the winners, and this time they only finished 15 points back.

FG lost the election lads. Face up to it. Moral victories don't matter a damn.

Even claiming you won an extra 20 seats means nothing. FF lost 3.

That's the difference. You took nothing off your nearest rivals.

[The Earl of Desmond]

Well funny how the party that ruled Mexico for 70 years said it could never lose and then at the next election it did and the same for the Italian Christian Democrats.

The point is that no matter what Bertie gobbles together there is crisis after crisis to face and it is not 1997 so a huge amount of time and effort will go on danger management and it is usually the little things which no one saw coming which blows the whole thing apart and over the next two years it is likely more job losses will happen, the health service still won't be fixed and all the other problems will get worse.

So if FG bide their time there is no reason why a slightly better FG media campaign can't learn not to make the same mistakes etc so while it is disappointing for FG now with hindsight it might actually have been a blessing in disguise.

Interesting that all you have is that FF were in power but I guess that's all it means to FF - nothing about improving people's lives as long as the boys get the brown envelopes and the Christian Democrats and MExican party were just as corrupt as FF but they still got the book in the end.

[The Earl of Desmond]

I'm not disputing FG lost. I'm just saying is that really such a bad thing when you take a long term view.

[flyer]

If Kenny can't reach 83 now how is he going to reach 83 in 2 years time? Should FF & PD TDs start looking under their cars before getting in? Other than Bev Flynn which TDs would be most vulnerable to such a Machiavellian twist?

[Mad as a hatter]

I was just thinking the same myself.

This is akin to Liverpool fans claiming that they won this years Premiership, because last year, they were 30 points behind the winners, and this time they only finished 15 points back.

FG lost the election lads. Face up to it. Moral victories don't matter a damn.

Even claiming you won an extra 20 seats means nothing. FF lost 3.

That's the difference. You took nothing off your nearest rivals.

Yes, we did lose the election. But lets be perfectly honest here, it was always a long shot for FG to get into power, especially coming from such a low base. Obviously FG wouldn't or couldn't say this before the election. For example, look at Gay Mitchell, do you think he would of choose not to run if had of thought FG were going to get into into power and miss out at a seat at the cabinet table?

So in saying that FG had an exceptional election and can be extremely optimistic for the future and will be a much stronger opposition in the Dail than in the previous session.

[scamallbeag]

So if FG bide their time there is no reason why a slightly better FG media campaign can't learn not to make the same mistakes etc so while it is disappointing for FG now with hindsight it might actually have been a blessing in disguise.

The FG media campaign wasn't all that bad, from what I saw of it, *this* time around. The killer was, of course, Enda himself, who finally got off the leash with his hurt-sounding 'you should look across the cabinet table' remark that did him a whole heap of no good and took the pressure off Bertie at the crucial moment. From that moment on, the story was McDowell rather than Bertie and FG were never going to win by decimating the PDs. The spindoctors must have been furious (if not surprised that he finally cracked)!

FG can't dump Enda without looking as powerhungry as FF -- they are therefore screwed next time as well.