Votes for Irish abroad and those of Irish descent

[cain1798]

I got an email from an Irish-American I used to study with in the US. He wants to know why he cannot have a vote in the forthcoming general election. For what it's worth, he'd no more vote Sinn Féin than I would PD.

Anyway, I explained the Constitution and laws making Irish residency a requirement of voting here and that there has been some desultory talk over the years of allowing emigrants to vote in Seanad elections.

He claims that in a number of other countries, including the US, people can still vote for a number of years after taking up residence in a new country and wanted to know the objections to a similar process here.

To be honest, it's an area that I know little about, and an area that I have to confess I have fairly little interest in. I can understand the political establishment not wanting unknown/uncontrolled/ignorant depending on your point of view, voting in elections, and I understand, though do not agree with the inverted no taxation without representation argument.

Does anyone have any more information or thoughts?

[drbob1972]

just to be clear when you say "Irish-American" do you mean someone born in ireland now living in the US, or someone who's fore-fathers orginally came from ireland but this person was born, raised and lived in the US ?

[owenfeehan]

I cannot vote in neither Ireland nor Germany (in national elections). I feel more than a little disenfranchised.

After a year here, I'll be allowed vote in local and EU elections due to being an EU citizen.

And I reckon I'm as Irish as they get

[cain1798]

Born in Ireland and now living in the US. He also expressed the notion that second generation emigrants should have the vote, but this chap was born in Ireland though he left before he was 18.

[QuizMaster]

Makes sense to me.
Didn't his own founder fathers adopt the slogan "No taxation without representation"?
Well it works both ways. He pays his tax to the USA, that's where he should vote.

Me, I don't support votes for emigrants. They should vote where they live.
Likewise we should give the vote to all our residents, not just citizens.

[drbob1972]

if hes a US citizen now thats where he should vote,

re second generation being able to vote thats a complete non runner as you end up with the potential for many 100,000's of ppl being able to vote whom may never have even visited the county of there grandparents birth and whom have daft romantic notions and no understanding of the issues.

[Respvblica]

I support his right and disagree with the tax link(by that logic we would disenfranchise the unemployed and elderly).
Anyway we live in a globalised world where people can pick up a contract abroad for 6 months and come back or maybe not, but they still remain Irish citizens. Actually when I think about it, and considering our history, this tie between the vote and residence is a bit sad. Apart from recently, many people were forced out of this country by economic mismanagement. Those that stayed continmued to vote for the parties that perpetutaed the regime.
Theres a few things:
Redfine citizenship and passport laws and stop dual nationality. No man can support two masters- its impossible. Faced with this choice we'll soon see who wants to be Irish or who wants to be american or British. Then allow all citizens to vote in general elections and referendums.
National policy should be the responsibility of all citizens(here and abroad). Local politics should be the limited of those living in that area. Local elections should be open then just to those This should be the case throughout the EU anyway.

[smiffy]

Makes sense to me.
Didn't his own founder fathers adopt the slogan "No taxation without representation"?
Well it works both ways. He pays his tax to the USA, that's where he should vote.

I don't think it necessarily works both ways. That would imply that persons who are resident but who do not pay tax, for whatever reason, aren't entitled to vote.

However, I don't know if the US is necessarily the best model to follow. Certainly ex-pats are entitled to vote in Presidential elections (and, as far as I know federal elections). However, I've done a quick bit of Googling, and it appears that in elections to state legislatures (well, in the two I've looked at - Vermont and California), people have to be resident in the State in order to be registered there. Wouldn't elections to the Dáil be more comparable with these than with Presidential ones?

I've no problem with allowing Irish citizens overseas to vote in Presidential elections or Constitutional referendums. However, our parliamentary system is based on the assumption that the person voting has some link with the constituency they're voting in. Wouldn't people like cain's friend be entitled to vote in whichever constituency they want and, if so, couldn't this disproportionately affect certain candidates (one could imagine a campaign to get large numbers overseas to register in Dublin SE with the specific aim of unseated McDowell - fun, perhaps, but not very democratic)? How would the division of seats between constituencies work, if you have a significant number of registered voters who weren't included in the Census?

Maybe some kind of Seanad reform could provide partial representation (bearing in mind that many of those entitled to vote in Seanad elections can vote from overseas anyway).

[QuizMaster]

I support his right and disagree with the tax link(by that logic we would disenfranchise the unemployed and elderly)...

I take this point.
I shouldn't have put it so simpmlistically, but I do believe that only residents should vote. If you are away on holidays, maybe a postal vote. If you are on a 6-month contract, yeah maybe too. But after that is stretching it a bit far. The dividing line is hard to draw. Maybe if you have a permanent address in Ireland, and a PPS number.

Why on earth would we give the vote to U.S. citizens who are settled in the U.S.A.? Even if they were born in Ireland? And certainly we should not give the vote to U.S. citizens who have only a genetic connection to this country.

[FutureTaoiseach]

As far as I am concerned, only Irish citizens resident in Ireland should have the vote here. It is wrong that someone who is paying taxes to a foreign govt and not to the Irish govt - and who is not acquainted with current affairs in this country - let alone someone who hasn't even set foot here in their life - should make decisions for the living-conditions and quality of life of Irish-resident people. It would amount to letting people make the good/bad decisions and forcing others to suffer the consequences. Imagine granting South Americans of Spanish-descent the right to vote in Spanish elections? Insane.