Tossing a coin

[THR]

I have a couple of questions concerning the Irish elections. For you the things I`m asking may seem like self-evident truths but excuse me for being an outsider and I don`t know everything about Ireland, especially as I`ve never been there even though I`d love to visit your country but that is unlikely ever to happen.

Firstable, as you have an electoral system based on STV, are there rules concerning if two candidates on different sides of the border of getting elected and not geting elected get exactly the same number of votes. I understand that after the first preference votes are counted and if no-one meets the quota, then second preference votes are considered as worthy as firstpreference votes. So, if all the votes have been counted and two candidates get exactly the same amount of votes and preferences, what decides which one of themwins? First preferences? If they are equal then second preferences? And so on. Or would the election officials toss a coin to decide the winner.

Another question concerning the constituency division of Ireland. Is the number of constituencies, 42, a fixed number or does it just happen to be that number after there has been an expedient division of the country into constituencies based on various local boundaries?

This brings me to my next question. The number of seats each Irish constituency returns has been set at 3-5. So, are there rules how to divide regions into constituencies? For example, if the population of any given county merits that county 10 seats in the Dail, would that always be divided as 5-5 or perhaps 4-3-3? Probably the borders local authorities come into play when deciding the boundariesof constituenciesand how many members they return.

[Whig]

To the first question, yes in the highly unlikely event that two candidates have been level at every count, a coin is tossed to determine the winner. In eighty-five years, that hasn't happened yet and considering the number of counts with transfers each time, I wouldn't expect it to happen any time soon. If on the last count, two candidates are equal, they do look at the first preferences, and so on.

There is nothing fixed about the number of constituencies. It was 41 when I first followed these things. It usually follows county boundaries, with a few exceptions such as Limerick city extending into Clare county, so that bit of Clare is included in Limerick East. There was a big fuss when Leitrim was split in the run-up to this election, with Sligo-North Leitrim and Roscommon-South Leitrim. Splitting counties in this way is avoided, but there's nothing to prevent it.

These matters are decided by a national boundary commission, i.e. Kildare County Council has no control over the fact that Kildare North has four seats and Kildare South three.

FYI, this is the relevant information from the constitution.

Article 16.2
1° Dáil Éireann shall be composed of members who represent constituencies determined by law.

2° The number of members shall from time to time be fixed by law, but the total number of members of Dáil Éireann shall not be fixed at less than one member for each thirty thousand of the population, or at more than one member for each twenty thousand of the population.

3° The ratio between the number of members to be elected at any time for each constituency and the population of each constituency, as ascertained at the last preceding census, shall, so far as it is practicable, be the same throughout the country.

4° The Oireachtas shall revise the constituencies at least once in every twelve years, with due regard to changes in distribution of the population, but any alterations in the constituencies shall not take effect during the life of Dáil Éireann sitting when such revision is made.

5° The members shall be elected on the system of proportional representation by means of the single transferable vote.

6° No law shall be enacted whereby the number of members to be returned for any constituency shall be less than three.

[THR]

Thanks Whig for your very informative post. What really puzzles me about the Irish elections is how the size of each constituency is determined. I suppose that at first you count the number of seats each county has and if that number exceeds 5 then there is a question how to divide the county into constituencies. Probably expedient minicipal boundaries have something to say over this. Is the City of Dublin the only city/town which has been divided into more than constituency? One should think so as 5/166 seats is a population of about 125000in Ireland. Apart from Dublin, there is no other town with a population like that in Ireland.

[Liberal333]

I think Cork City is divided into North Central and South Central as well.

[Edinburgh]

What really puzzles me about the Irish elections is how the size of each constituency is determined.

Under the Government of Ireland Act 1920, "Southern Ireland" was divided into 26 constituencies (electoral districts) returning a total of 120 members: average district magnitude = 4.62. There were 13 x 3-member, 14 x 4-member, 4 x 5-member, 2 x 6-member, 1 x 7-member and 2 x 8-member. The allocations of numbers appear to have reflected local geography and recognised "communities".

Following election victory in 1973 the National Coalition (Fine Gael and Labour) thought it could disadvantage Fianna Fail permanently by reducing the sizes of many of the larger constituencies to manipulate the quota. In the event, the "Tullymander" (named after the Minister responsible) backfired spectacularly, but the smaller constituencies persist.

Now there are 166 members elected from 42 constituencies: average district magnitude = 3.95. There are 16 x 3-member, 12 x 4-member and 14 x 5-member.

[THR]

The boundary commission has a difficult job to divide the country into expedient constituencies. Probably the city- and town-boundaries have significance in what manner a county is divided. For example, if the population of a county merits it 10 seats, they have decide whether to divide the county into two 5-seat constituencies or three constituencies of 4,3 and 3 seats. Of course, as often is the case, there is one larger city in the county with a population of a third of the entire county, so it is easy to make that city as a constitency of its own and the rest of the county is then divided into two constituencies.

Then there is the problem that the population of some counties does not merit them three seats so they have form together with neighboroughing counties of similar size one constituency.Then there is a problem which counties are expedient to merge in elections. Probably the arcane Muster-Leinster-Connaught-Ulster division comes into play as well so that you don`t have one county from Munster and another county from Connaught to form one constituency.

I guess whichever way the boundart commisiion draws the constituency-boundaries they are always facing accusations of gerrymandering. Especially in cases in which population-changes require redrawing of the constituency boundaries or/and change the number of seats each constituency returns.