Should Cabinet Ministers all be TD's ?

[cyberianpan]

Recently the issue of clientelism came up & out of it came that Cabinet Ministers were allowed hire extra staff on good salaries to run their constituency offices. A minister is a full time job & I'm not sure that they ought try to represent constituents also. A different model exists in say the US where the President appoints the executive.

Some people would argue that minsters need to be elected (so without even getting into national lists) how about that each person running for TD nominate a "second" who'd take over ?

Given the small size of our parliment the minsterial talent pool is quite low, wouldn't an honest Taoiseach want to bring in some fresh thinking, proven people from business, civil service, voluntary sector ? This would also boost the image of the government as professionals rather than partisans.

Also at the least:

7. 1° The Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the member of the Government who is in charge of the Department of Finance must be members of Dáil Éireann.

2° The other members of the Government must be members of Dáil Éireann or Seanad Éireann, but not more than two may be members of Seanad Éireann.

The current constitution allows 2 appointees (say from the Taoiseach's Seanad list). Is any party out there willing to use this ? Or do they all claim to have all of the answers & all of the people to do all of the jobs all of the time ?

cYp

[drjimryan]

It make sense really. Garrett Fitzgerald did it with Jim Dooge. Bertie unfortunately has taken a simplistic line when appointing cabinet and in 100 days, I presume nothing much will change.......

Perhaps some ideas!......

Michael O'Leary........transport
John Bowman...........arts
eamon dunphy......foreign affairs

any more?

[The Analyser]

It make sense really. Garrett Fitzgerald did it with Jim Dooge. Bertie unfortunately has taken a simplistic line when appointing cabinet and in 100 days, I presume nothing much will change.......

Perhaps some ideas!......

Michael O'Leary........transport
John Bowman...........arts
eamon dunphy......foreign affairs

any more?

I think it has been used three times:

De Valera's Justice Minister in 1933, I think (Connolly?) but that was under the Seanad Éireann of Saoratát Éireann.

Sean Moylan, I think, in the 1950s, also under de Valera.

Jim Dooge (Oct 1981-Mar 1982) under Garret FitzGerald.

The problem is though that the Seanad is elected after the Dáil has assembled and (usually) nominated a government for appointment by the President of Ireland. So unless the person the Taoiseach wants to appoint is already a senator, you get a gap before they can take office. In the case of Dooge, Garret formed his cabinet in July 1981 and announced his plan to appoint Dooge as a minister. (There was ructions over it, with the media and politicians screaming 'how dare he select someone the people have not elected to the Dáil) But as Dooge was not a senator then (he had retired from the Seanad) the late Professor John Kelly, who had been named Minister for Trade, Commerce and Tourism (but initially became Minister for Industry and Commerce until the latter department was split in two and two new ones, Trade, Commerce and Tourism; Industry and Energy, created by legislation) was also made Acting Minister for Foreign Affairs. Only after the Seanad election had taken place could FitzGerald announce his nominees to the Seanad. Needlesstosay Dooge was among them and so it was only in October 1981, 4 months after the rest of the government had come into being, that President Hillery was able to actually appoint Jim to the Department of Foreign Affairs.

I'm not saying non-TDs are a bad idea, just that our system is effectively unworkable. What we really need to do is stop clientalism and turn our TDs and ministes into legislators. But that cannot happen until we change or reform our electoral system. As long as you have multi-seat constituencies you will continue to have voters blackmail TDs by saying 'do a fix it for me or I will vote for someone else' and as their jobs depend on it they will have no choice if they want to keep their job but to be clientalist TDs.

[The Analyser]

It make sense really. Garrett Fitzgerald did it with Jim Dooge. Bertie unfortunately has taken a simplistic line when appointing cabinet and in 100 days, I presume nothing much will change.......

Perhaps some ideas!......

Michael O'Leary........transport
John Bowman...........arts
eamon dunphy......foreign affairs

any more?

That bowsey O'Leary for Transport??? [size=7]No way[/size]. Anyone who ever been a victim of that bastard's company and their contempt for passengers knows exactly what that son-of-a-bitch is like. :twisted:

[krayZpaving]

Michael O'Leary........transport

Buses would only run from Stillorgan (Kilmacud) to the City Centre, and wouldn't pick up any passengers on the way. Fares would be €.25, but if you wanted to sit down or bring on a shopping bag, it'd be a fiver. There'd be four buses a day, all at 6am. Train lines would be sold off for scrap metal.

[The Analyser]

Michael O'Leary........transport

Buses would only run from Stillorgan (Kilmacud) to the City Centre, and wouldn't pick up any passengers on the way. Fares would be €.25, but if you wanted to sit down or bring on a shopping bag, it'd be a fiver. There'd be four buses a day, all at 6am. Train lines would be sold off for scrap metal.

And don't forget that, going by Ryanair standards, the Number 10 bus to O'Connell Street would actually stop in Castleknock and the UCD stop would be in Bray.

[hiding behind a poster]

Michael O'Leary........transport

Buses would only run from Stillorgan (Kilmacud) to the City Centre, and wouldn't pick up any passengers on the way. Fares would be €.25, but if you wanted to sit down or bring on a shopping bag, it'd be a fiver. There'd be four buses a day, all at 6am. Train lines would be sold off for scrap metal.

And don't forget that, going by Ryanair standards, the Number 10 bus to O'Connell Street would actually stop in Castleknock and the UCD stop would be in Bray.

And don't forget that while 25 cent would be the headline fare if you booked 3 months in advance, go online tonight looking for a trip to town tomorrow and its 199.99 each way.

[Decko]

what about the taoiseach appointing one or 2 members of the opposition to ministries -- this happens in the US

[The Analyser]

what about the taoiseach appointing one or 2 members of the opposition to ministries -- this happens in the US

That's not really feasible in parliamentary systems because the party political demarcation line is stronger than in presidential systems. A secretary in the US cabinet does not have to vote for the government on the floor of the house. Appointing a member of the opposition in a parliamentary system would mean in effect stealing one of their Dail votes. It would be extraordinarily controversial, especially in the government party/parties, would would scream "hey what about our guys, you numbskull?" at the Taoiseach.

[THR]

No, actually be it Ireland or any other country, only the Prime Minister should be member of parliament. Most of the ministers are as well but that should not be a requirement. There may be better ideas outside parliament and they should be taken advantage of. The PM is responsible for hiring and firing of his ministers(though in coalition-governments it is not as straightforward as that) and he subsequently is the one who is responsible for the entire government.