Has the Leaving cert been 'dumbed down'?

[asknoquestions]

I'd agree with that, I did honours maths in 95, and I think it was shortly before that time that its curriculum was changed. (is that the right word?)

I think that has a lot to do with the increase in higher grades from the LC, students are being taught how to beat the exam, not learn the subject.

However, that didn't work in university where the results were graded on a curve and the variety of possible questions much larger. You never knew how well you did as it was all relevant to the best and worst performers and there were no 'guaranteed' questions, or even a guaranteed format. You didn't even know what percentage of your final result came from the exam, or tutorials, or lab sessions, or term papers. It was a nightmare lol.

Did you go to UL or DCU? I think they are more likely to grade on a curve than the NUI colleges.

I haven't looked at an honours maths paper in a while now but the last time I looked the last part of the questions (for 15-20%) was pretty hard. I think it is easier now to get a B1 than then but I'd still respect an A1 or A2. In the early 90s there were no A1s anyway, it was just A, B and C.

[rightsofman]

Did you go to UL or DCU? I think they are more likely to grade on a curve than the NUI colleges.
...

It was UL, and if I knew then what I do now, I would never have gone. It was great in many respects but the academic side of it was almost arbitrarily more difficult than other universities. I had classmates who did similar courses in TCD and NUIG and comparing experiences and exams, they agreed that UL was much tougher to progress through.

So if theres anyone reading this who gets UL as their first choice, hollllllllld on for your second choice

[Trampas]

Yes.

The late Seamus Brennan when Min Ed certainly dumbed down the LC H Maths syllabus and correspondingly the LC H Maths exam.

Others may know more about other subjects but
This I Know....

That is true. Indeed I am aware that there was at least one resignation in protest.

[wombat]

That is true. Indeed I am aware that there was at least one resignation in protest.

What year was that? - I'm from the log tables and sliderule generation.

[orbit]

I was talking to a teacher who corrects english papers and I asked him about this - apparently they correct to a kind of template of what is being asked in the question - tick all the boxes and you can get full marks - that is why I suggested earlier that students are now being taught not so much the subject as how to pass a particular exam in the particular subject. Guess it helps too if the teacher is an examiner who is fully up-to-date with the marking system.

That's what I've come to believe as well. The system (as a whole) is completely formulaic nowadays. When I did it, in 1981, nobody , or at least very few, students knew much about the marking system. You were taught the curriculum and basically that was it. There was very little rechecking, and nobody ever got to see their scripts afterwards.

Ironically, it was the very process of making the system more transparent that has resulted in this formulaic, and effectively dumbed-down exam system. Sometimes my kids tell me about entire essays that they have to learn off verbatim. It's quite shocking and sickening. It isn't education at all.

[Trampas]

What year was that? - I'm from the log tables and sliderule generation.

Quite recent, although I can't put a year on it.

[Herodotus]

I did both the old and new syllabus for history. My teacher told me for the new syllabus in history the markers had a template for marking. Essays in the new system were worth 100 marks, in the old one essays were worth 80 marks. In the new system, a paragraph is marked out of 12. You can get up to 60 marks for this, the other 40 is down to the examiners discretion regarding style, relevance to the answer etc. My teacher told me that in the new system, if you do 10 mediocre paragraphs of 6/12 you get full marks for that part of the essay. In the old system, that was not the way. Also in the new system, you get 20% for a research project.

So in History the LC has been dumbed down considerably.

[Seos]

My teacher told me that in the new system, if you do 10 mediocre paragraphs of 6/12 you get full marks for that part of the essay.

Not exactly, for each good point you make in that paragraph you get a point, with a maximum of 12. Part of the marks for style is that the paragraph has to deal with a certain single issue. So it's almost impossible to make 12 good points on a single issue without compromising style (and thus losing marks)

[lostexpectation]

hisotyr another subject with too much to cover and too much of an exam

[the king]

the Irish students are dumb enough as it is..