Value for college fees???

[Supermanpolitician]

I know there is another thread on fees, but this is a side issue. If an Arts student comes out owing 21K in fees at the end of three years, then does this mean that the college gets 7k per student per year? Is college worth that.

Back in my day university cost around 2k punts,thought the RTCs (now ITs) were free as they were of a lower standard and people thought no one would pay for that. When free fees were introduced there was hyper inflation in colleges. Everything went up. I spent my third year abroad but came back to free education. Rents had gone up by 100 punts per month from 200 to 300. Food in the canteen, beer in pubs, stationary in the local shops, and veen photocopying had all gone up. The free part of my college fees in my final year was virtually wiped out.

But DCU were still getting about 2K punts from the exchequer for me being there. But now the fees are averaging 7k each. Are colleges providing good value for that money?

Obviously certain courses, such as science, medicine and engineering have very expensive equipment etc. But even at that, we must ask what is and is not good value?

[sauntersplash]

For a long time, Universities have been treated as business' first and places of learning/innovation second. You'll start getting value for money from college on the day you start feeling like your bank gives a schiser about you as an individual.

ie never.

[seabhcan]

I know there is another thread on fees, but this is a side issue. If an Arts student comes out owing 21K in fees at the end of three years, then does this mean that the college gets 7k per student per year? Is college worth that.

For basic Arts, almost certainly not. If you take a language option and do well in it, maybe.

[Proposition Joe]

Back in my day university cost around 2k punts,thought the RTCs (now ITs) were free as they were of a lower standard and people thought no one would pay for that.

Which brings up the question of whether the ITs will be covered in the current proposed scheme.

And if not, why not? Surely the undergrad teaching in the ITs is just as expensive to provide?

Exempting them would have the effect of further devaluing the perceived standing of IT-awarded degrees and would also distort student choices. Back in my day, loads of people who would have been well able for UCC went instead to Cork RTC for the free fees and ESF grant.

BTW I'd be in favour of maintaining free third level for all, but if fees/loans are introduced, it would seem non-sensical to only apply the change to the university sector.

[birthday]

If students end up owing 7k per year I imagine that they will be a lot more critical of the courses and quality of lecturing!

[HighInBandon]

That is a very good question. I would really like to see a breakdown of what the college fees are actually spent on. I wasn't aware that fees had increased so dramatically.

In my opinion, the quality of teaching is actually steadily decreasing in UCC. One worrying development is that much teaching work is now being done by unpaid (and therefore often unwilling) postgraduate students. These students are responsible for correcting assignments, teaching tutorials and demonstrating labs. I am aware of at least one department where this is occuring and frankly I wonder if the undergraduate students in this department will be satisfied that they are receiving value for money, if (or rather when) they start paying fees.

Many undergraduate students only contact with paid academic staff, is in the form of lectures delivered to class sizes which at worst number in the hundreds. To be fair, these class sizes do tend to decrease as students progress through the years of the degree. However, they are still paying 'tuition' fees for the first year of college and I expect many will start demanding more value for money.