Catholic church monopolised education it was never about benevolent charity

[lostexpectation]

fantastic article from fintan o'toole has to be posted in its own thread, it been said before but needs to said again.

Lessons in the power of the church - The Irish Times - Sat, Jun 06, 2009

Ireland is one of the very few countries in the developed world that does not have a national system of primary education. The church controls 2,899 of the 3,282 primary schools in the State, catering for 92 per cent of pupils. This situation didn’t just happen, and nor did it arise because the church undertook a task that the State was shirking. The overwhelming church control of the system of primary education results not from charity but from the exercise of power.
In 1831, Lord Stanley, then chief secretary for Ireland, established a national schools system. A board in Dublin would make grants for the building of local schools and the payment of teachers’ salaries. These schools would be under the patronage of important local figures. The schools would, however, be obliged to be strictly non-denominational – in the context of early 19th century Ireland this meant that they would ensure equal access to Catholics, Protestants and Dissenters.

As part of that process, it set about destroying the national schools and replacing them with a specifically Catholic system. Its leader, Cardinal Paul Cullen, declared the national school system to be “very dangerous when considered in general because its aim is to introduce a mingling of Protestants and Catholics.”

the church’s control was used not to provide services but to prevent the State providing them.

what parents or teachers groups are now firmly in favour of secular state system? and who is blocking it.

[Glennshane]

Did Mr O'Toole mention the part played by the Presbyterians in forcing the segregation of schools?

Did he mention the incident at Broughshane, Co Antrim which brought matters to a head?

Did he tell his readers that the Board of Education (2/3 Protestant in an Ireland about 80% Catholic) defaulted on its statutory obligations to Catholics by failing to protect Catholics from Presbyterian bullying?

Did he tell his readers that the Catholic bishops finally turned their backs on integrated education after giving it a try for 28 years?

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

No he was too busy spray-painting oranges green in case they cause offense to catholic Sinn Fein Children.

[reknaw]

Most of what has been written above is about history, but we are living in the here and now, and also in a country with a constitution that separates church and state.

The reality is, however, that our State has abrogated its responsibility and large numbers of children in Ireland have no option at all other than to attend schools that are run by the Kiddy-Fiddler Church. From an early age they are straighjacketed into an education system that forces them to go through all the holy communion and confirmation rigmarole, irrespective of what their parents think. Thus, in effect, the State is endowing religion, in contravention of the constitution.

The least we can expect of our Government is that they establish a national network of primary and secondary schools, just like there are in most other European countries. There will still be room for church-run schools, provided they meet national educational standards and are properly overseen by the State.

If the Pope is really going to make an apology for the terrible crimes his Irish minions committed and wants it to have any aura of reality and credibility about it, he would instruct the bishops here not to hinder any attempts to secularise education.

[Glennshane]

[QUOTE=reknaw;1758086]

"Most of what has been written above is about history"

Fintan O'Toole's attack on the Catholic Church purported to be "history".

"The reality is, however, that our State has abrogated its responsibility and large numbers of children in Ireland have no option at all other than to attend schools that are run by the Kiddy-Fiddler Church."

In view of your anti-Catholic taunt, why should any Catholic allow his child to sit in the same classroom as your child?

"From an early age they are straighjacketed into an education system that forces them to go through all the holy communion and confirmation rigmarole, irrespective of what their parents think."

Why not establish your own non-Catholic school?

"Thus, in effect, the State is endowing religion, in contravention of the constitution."

Not true. It provides faith schools with the same support it provides to Irish medium schools and to Educate To-gether schools.

"If the Pope is really going to make an apology for the terrible crimes his Irish minions committed and wants it to have any aura of reality and credibility about it, he would instruct the bishops here not to hinder any attempts to secularise education."

I did not know that the Catholic bishops were hindering attemts to set up secular schools, Muslims schools or Protestant schools. They are trying to stop Catholic schools being secularised - and they have every right to do that.

P.S. How "secular" are the State schools of the UK - especially those in Northern Ireland?

[Glennshane]

No he was too busy spray-painting oranges green in case they cause offense to catholic Sinn Fein Children.

A Stater trying to be clever.