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  1. #1
    patslatt patslatt is offline

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    Irish Times:Prominent politicians call for nationalisation of church-run schools

    Carey says State must take control of church-run schools - The Irish Times - Mon, Jun 01, 2009 Government Chief Whip Pat Carey and Ruari Quinn,Labour Party spokesman on education are calling for nationalisation of denominational schools. They may have a receptive audience at present,given public revulsion towards the well documented disclosures of child abuse in the Ryan report. Catholic congregations cited in this report may come under pressure to transfer large numbers of schools to the state as a means of satisfying the government's demand to indemnify it for half the cost of compensating people abused in industrial schools and orphanages.

    Advocates of secular education provision for an increasingly diverse society may welcome this. However,one good principle to follow in government is, "if it ain't broke,don't fix it!" The Catholic education system,structurally a private school system subsidised by the government which pays teachers' salaries, is certainly not broke. In fact,the Irish education system,largely Catholic, is ranked one of the best quality education systems internationally,according to the World Economic Forum's competitiveness rankings.

    Transferring it to the government could undermine its high quality. Would the government that created the HSE,the bureaucratic monster that runs the health service, create a bureaucratic ESE, Education Service Executive? Or will it create expensive bureaucratic school board quangos like those in the USA and Canada that mainly serve to undermine the authority of schools managements?

    There is a simple solution for creating secular schools out of Catholic schools. Simply remove the requirement to teach religion! Everything else can continue as before,more or less,except that the teachers no longer have to be Catholics and the school management can include non-Catholics.
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  2. #2
    Glennshane Glennshane is offline

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    [QUOTE=patslatt;1720491][url=http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0601/1224247818468.html]

    "Catholic congregations cited in this report may come under pressure to transfer large numbers of schools to the state as a means of satisfying the government's demand to indemnify it for half the cost of compensating people abused in industrial schools and orphanages."

    Will the Catholic laity agree to their children sitting beside the children of non-Catholics or being taught by anti-Catholics?

    "Advocates of secular education provision for an increasingly diverse society may welcome this. "

    Will the Catholic laity want their children taught in "diverse" schools?

    "Everything else can continue as before,more or less,except that the teachers no longer have to be Catholics and the school management can include non-Catholics.

    No, No, No - no anti-Catholic involvement in the education of Catholics.
    Last edited by Glennshane; 13th June 2009 at 04:20 PM.
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  3. #3
    corelli corelli is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by patslatt View Post
    Carey says State must take control of church-run schools - The Irish Times - Mon, Jun 01, 2009 Government Chief Whip Pat Carey and Ruari Quinn,Labour Party spokesman on education are calling for nationalisation of denominational schools. They may have a receptive audience at present,given public revulsion towards the well documented disclosures of child abuse in the Ryan report. Catholic congregations cited in this report may come under pressure to transfer large numbers of schools to the state as a means of satisfying the government's demand to indemnify it for half the cost of compensating people abused in industrial schools and orphanages.

    Advocates of secular education provision for an increasingly diverse society may welcome this. However,one good principle to follow in government is, "if it ain't broke,don't fix it!" The Catholic education system,structurally a private school system subsidised by the government which pays teachers' salaries, is certainly not broke. In fact,the Irish education system,largely Catholic, is ranked one of the best quality education systems internationally,according to the World Economic Forum's competitiveness rankings.

    Transferring it to the government could undermine its high quality. Would the government that created the HSE,the bureaucratic monster that runs the health service, create a bureaucratic ESE, Education Service Executive? Or will it create expensive bureaucratic school board quangos like those in the USA and Canada that mainly serve to undermine the authority of schools managements?

    There is a simple solution for creating secular schools out of Catholic schools. Simply remove the requirement to teach religion! Everything else can continue as before,more or less,except that the teachers no longer have to be Catholics and the school management can include non-Catholics.
    There is hardly a priest or religious left teaching in any school in the country, particularly primary schools. Additionally, they must follow a State curriculum, do State examinations, follow State disciplinary criteria, and otherwise are effectively totally Governed by the State, bar in matters of recruitment etc. Oh, and of course, the State pays the salaries.

    How, exactly, would removing the religious affect that in any way or dilute the quality of education?
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  4. #4
    Keith-M Keith-M is offline
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    About bloody time. I have been calling for this for years. We need to strike while the iron is hot, before the religeous try and create a smokescreen to cover their wrong doing.
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  5. #5
    BodyofEvidence BodyofEvidence is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glennshane View Post


    Will the ARYAN laity agree to their children sitting beside the children of JEWS or being taught by JEWS?

    Will the ARYAN laity want their children taught in "diverse" schools?



    No, NO, No - no JEWISH involvement in the education of ARYANS.

    See how it looks now....
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  6. #6
    Lord Deputy of Listowel Lord Deputy of Listowel is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glennshane View Post
    Will the Catholic laity agree to their children sitting beside the children of non-Catholics or being taught by anti-Catholics?

    No, NO, No - no anti-Catholic involvement in the education of Catholics.
    I really do feel sorry for you.
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  7. #7
    Limerick Lad Limerick Lad is offline

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    Most supposedly Catholic schools are Catholic in name only, 99% staffed by lay teachers whose salaries are paid by the State, most school buildings have been built or refurbished with State funds with the only contribution from the Church now being the fact that the land on which these schools are situated belonging to the Church.
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  8. #8
    MrFunkyBoogaloo MrFunkyBoogaloo is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glennshane View Post
    No, NO, No - no anti-Catholic involvement in the education of Catholics.
    Why? Are you afraid they might be told the truth?

    Jesus had 2 daddies

    God is a Sky-Fairy

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  9. #9
    County Cork County Cork is offline

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    It IS broken, very broken.
    Our results are not as good as you seem to think.
    Take a look at OECD reports over the last decade or so.
    Take a look at the level of illiteracy in Ireland, outlined in report after report.

    Stop listening to indoctrination.
    The religious abused our children, but they educated us!
    So that's ok then? No it is not.
    Look a bit closer at the education they gave us - taught us by beating the hell out of us!
    What kind of teaching was that?
    We're grateful because we were beaten in school?
    What kind of people are we? We should NOT be grateful for that.

    Another fallacy - the church no longer has power in Ireland.
    The church runs every aspect of our primary schools.
    They choose the teachers = they control the delivery of the curriculum.
    They send in a religion inspector (now called a diocesan advisor) every year, to check up on the teaching of religion.
    They make the teachers prepare children for the sacraments.
    This takes about 4-5 months of 2nd class and 5th / 6th class.
    If a teacher, pupil, parent has a complaint about a school, you have to complain to the bishop. I have complained to Cloyne. No action.
    The church has retained the right to discriminate against teachers based on their sexual orientation - this is wrong, and no other sector is allowed to discriminate like this - and ironic given many priest's orientation! I am not gay, but I do not believe in discriminating against gay people, no matter what their job may be. It's a scandal.
    The church is allowed to discriminate against possible pupils on the basis of their religion - this is wrong. Children have a right to a free education under the declaration of human rights: article 26. The church is above that? No.
    The church control the schools = control the teachers = controls the children = controls the parents = controls the future = CONTROLS.

    Would I allow my children to sit beside non-Catholics in school?
    That's a sick question. Of course I would, why wouldn't I?
    Non-Catholics don't have the plague!!!

    I'm fed up of this attitude.
    State and church should have nothing to do with each other.
    It's 2009!!
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  10. #10
    lostexpectation lostexpectation is offline

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    carey wasn't that infactic on the show, he said it would happen slowly.

    quinn asked batt o'keefe a few weeks ago in the dail how many schools the orders had. batt o'keefe said he didn't know.

    they get notice of these question don't they, but they didn't know how many schools the orders had... theyre in no hurry.
    Last edited by lostexpectation; 1st June 2009 at 11:13 PM.
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