Originally Posted by punchdrunk
It was toungue in cheek, but with a point. My own opinion is that pay rates that are performance driven are much better for the individual, the customer, and the employer, if you chose one method over the other, then deal with the cons as well as the pros.
Progressive and fair taxation = 2012 Merc e250 elegance purchase price/value 47,910 Road Tax:- 156 2005 vw passat 1.9L diesel price/value 8000, Road Tax :- 582
Giving increments automaticaly-happens to in many private sector jobs but perhaps you could limit them and provide performance pay? Im a teacher but open to idea if I saw a workable scheme. Please Dont cite England-they are leaving in droves.
Career breaks are of course available in the private sector, and I have no problem with career breaks in general, but there is a vast difference between those available in ps and private sector, and for good reason, the private sector just could not afford it. My own emplyer has facilitated them on occasion (but never for more than 12 months for example).
It's just a case of having cake and eating it. We have temp teachers complaining about contracts and insecurity over long term, over missing pension payments as they are on temp contract (at times of many years) etc, but these problems are in part caused by teachers on career breaks, teachers being the cause of the actual problem, so whats the solution ? What were the teacher unions saying at the recent conferences in this regard, what were they asking for as a remedy ?
Why exactly did the situation arise where sitting td's (ex teachers) were able to keep their positions open long term, and not only that, also retain many of the benefits, including the differenctial in salary between the temp and their own salary. How could something like this have developed, it is clearly wrong. I appreciate it is being adressed, but nonetheless, how did it happen, what was the reasoned logic to it. In fairness, this type of practice was indefensible in the good times, never mind current times.
Ahmm, no, while I have spent most of the last 2 or 3 months on this site debating on ps related threads, I think I have been fairly reasonable in my opinions, I am certainly not anti teacher, I know many, and will say much the same thing to them to thier face that I have said here.
I said this before, I work alongside someone who is.was until recenly on 5 year career break from HSE!! I realise this is not condoned, s it is not for taking up employment, but irrespective, imagine, some poor sod has had to take a temp job to fill in her position for those 5 years.... There is nothing fair about that, not for the public service, not for the temp, not for the public being served!!
Do you really think there is nothing wrong with work practices, employment levels, pay and conditions in the ps ? Do you really think it is the most effeceint well run organisation it can be, no redundant work practices, no unnessacary waste, no overstaffing in certain areas ?
Progressive and fair taxation = 2012 Merc e250 elegance purchase price/value 47,910 Road Tax:- 156 2005 vw passat 1.9L diesel price/value 8000, Road Tax :- 582
Performance related pay is not practical in teaching. You could have one teacher who has the ear of the principal and gets academically strong classes. Another teacher could year in year out end up with weak classes. Who will measure performance? Who will monitor the principal? It is not unknown for principals to favour one teacher over another. Who will allow for the students with serious behavioural problems?
In poor deprived working class areas teachers struggle manfully against the odds. Who will measure their effort? Another layer of bureaucracy??
Absenteeism can destroy academic performance. Marriage break down impinges on childrens school performance. Children in teenage undergo major identity difficulties. This may damage performance. So the teacher should be penalized for this??????
The primary school curriculum should be recast to place far greater emphasis on the three Rs. You then build on that.
Will solicitors doctors, nurses be subjected to performance related pay? Why no mention of these here? Will professors be subjected to performance related pay?
Meanwhile the Government and bankers who created the mess in this country escape.
Performance related pay is liberal clap trap.
Politics.is has a large number of teacher bashers. Each and every week we get the usual PAVLOVIAN RESPONSES.
Some of the posts here are laughable and come from bird-brains.
Could we have something constructive for a change????
You think this is unique to teaching ?
Class and indivudual pupil performace could be tracked througout a pupils progress through the system.
The teachers superior
performace related pay is never a black and white issue, it is never, or should never be strictly down to a set of figures, all circumstances should be taken into consideration, there is nothing to stop issues like this being taken into consideration during a review, I get this in my own job al the time, some years my performance is down due to reasons beyond my control, and I am able to have this considered.
Again, their superior
And can be measured easily, for both teacher and pupil!! Should be one of the basic components of performance measurement
No
The primary school curriculum should be recast to place far greater emphasis on the three Rs. You then build on that.
Why not
Yawn, you speak about pavlovian responses!!
Out and out refusal of any level of it is left wing clap trap
Now to a point you are correct, there are certainly exceptions to certain professions which make it difficult, but certainly not impossible to introduce some level of performance related pay.
Progressive and fair taxation = 2012 Merc e250 elegance purchase price/value 47,910 Road Tax:- 156 2005 vw passat 1.9L diesel price/value 8000, Road Tax :- 582
You have failed to answer the hard questions. Who will SATISFACTORILY monitor a teachers performance? Who will indemnify the Board of Management if a teacher believes that he is been victimized by a Principal and resorts to legal action. You see I retired from teaching and set up my own business. I have no particular axe to grind on behalf of teachers. I can look at the education system in a balanced manner.You talk about left wing clap trap. I am a strong believer in private enterprise.
It is obvious from your post that you have no experience as a teacher.
This was my Post:
"Performance related pay is not practical in teaching. You could have one teacher who has the ear of the principal and gets academically strong classes. Another teacher could year in year out end up with weak classes. Who will measure performance? Who will monitor the principal? It is not unknown for principals to favour one teacher over another. Who will allow for the students with serious behavioural problems?
In poor deprived working class areas teachers struggle manfully against the odds. Who will measure their effort? Another layer of bureaucracy??
Absenteeism can destroy academic performance. Marriage break down impinges on childrens school performance. Children in teenage undergo major identity difficulties. This may damage performance. So the teacher should be penalized for this??????
The primary school curriculum should be recast to place far greater emphasis on the three Rs. You then build on that.
Will solicitors doctors, nurses be subjected to performance related pay? Why no mention of these here? Will professors be subjected to performance related pay?
Meanwhile the Government and bankers who created the mess in this country escape.
Performance related pay is liberal clap trap.
Politics.is has a large number of teacher bashers. Each and every week we get the usual PAVLOVIAN RESPONSES.
Some of the posts here are laughable and come from bird-brains.
Could we have something constructive for a change???? "
TO WHICH I ADD the following: Many students on week ends work in part time jobs. Naturally their academic performance suffers. Under your proposal a teachers pay would suffer on the basis of their poor results.
Your ideas are half balked and ill thought out. Think again
'The primary school curriculum should be recast to place far greater emphasis on the three Rs. You then build on that'
For heaven's sake we have only recently escaped from the primary school curriculum wherein every child's worth was measured by their perceived competence in 'the three Rs'. Many of our most successful entrepreneurs failed in that system. their talents went unrecognised and unmeasured and unvalued by those obsessed with the three Rs.
Of course we need to be numerate and literate. But being 'good' at reading, writing and 'rithmetic (not to mention Gaeilge) was ALL that mattered in primary school curriculum of old. All other aspects of the child's development were ignored and all those skills, talents and flair which could not be measured and scored in a written test were given no value. What a lot we lost in that dreadful, outmioded system.
Last edited by uriah; 21st April 2009 at 11:20 PM.
Am I to understand that you disagree with Gardner and feel that his theories have no place in modern education? If so, how do you feel that cognitive development is best achieved, particularly in our DEIS Band 1 schools?
Realistically speaking, if the majority of humanity remain non-believers, it doesn't matter. No problem! The problem is that the majority of humanity have lost or ignore the deeper human values - compassion, a sense of responsibility. That is our big concern.
Dalai Lama (1997)
Ahm, thats not my quote, I did'nt say that
Progressive and fair taxation = 2012 Merc e250 elegance purchase price/value 47,910 Road Tax:- 156 2005 vw passat 1.9L diesel price/value 8000, Road Tax :- 582
No, I answered the question, the teachers superior would satisfactorily monitor the teachers performamce. Serioulsy, any insunuation that law suits would follow en mass because of victimisation is either scare mongering, or if true, is a real indication of the sate of the education system. You are saying that teachers are victimised by superiors, that we have superiors that cannot be trusted to manage thier own staff in a fair and decent manner ? You are serioulsy telling me that a reason not to bring in a performance related pay system is because those emploed in the education system are not competent to manage it ?
You are the one dismissing things as "clap trap", perhaps take time to read my post (I wont pointlessy repeat the entire post as you did, go back and read it). Seriously, to say that bringing in any form of performance related pay is right wing clap trap, is left wing clap trap (oops, I repeated myself)
Nope, none at all, but I still have an opinion of worth as does every tax paying, parent, post pupil in the state!
Progressive and fair taxation = 2012 Merc e250 elegance purchase price/value 47,910 Road Tax:- 156 2005 vw passat 1.9L diesel price/value 8000, Road Tax :- 582
LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With Quote