Teachers Pay

[Wester]

The Thatcherite Labour Party's solution then..?

Second that, Labour has long been a gimp for the right to dominate. Ronan Lyons, economist with a property Web site, wow, he's obviously a wise old sage, isn't he! How about a discussion on the thousands of teachers in temporary posts, not the privleged few on high salaries.

[Gruffalo]

I am interested in logical discussion. I respect the opinions of others but i think those opinions should be based on accurate information. I think statistics quoted should be accurate and that it is important to have all the facts.

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If you think that these are wrong, I have no idea if they are or not, then provide the correct ones. That is how debate works.

[Bonzo1970]

Jaysus as far As i know any of you could have been teachers but after weighing it up obviously decided it was not for you.

[punchdrunk]

Second that, Labour has long been a gimp for the right to dominate. Ronan Lyons, economist with a property Web site, wow, he's obviously a wise old sage, isn't he! How about a discussion on the thousands of teachers in temporary posts, not the privleged few on high salaries.

Perhaps Lyons might do some research on relative class sizes. Why are there no graphs on class sizes?
Of course it would not suit his argument.

He speaks about pay cuts for teachers. What planet is he living on? Teachers pay has been cut by levies totalling 11%. Call it what you like but teachers pay has been cut.

Question for Ronan : Please outline the extent of pay cuts for bank workers?
Please furnish some graphs re pay at THIRD LEVEL and also number of hours worked.
Can we have some graphs on politicians pay and payments to top bankers and builders over the last 7 years.?
Finally as a businessman married to a teacher I can see both sides of the argument

[uriah]

If you think that these are wrong, I have no idea if they are or not, then provide the correct ones. That is how debate works.

I do not just THINK that they are wrong. I know that they are wrong. I already told you so.

As i have already said, primary schools in ireland are open for a minimum of 183 days (did you not read my initial posting?).

Only pay rates (in dollars, for some obscure reason) which would take me too long to research and days worked (which is inaccurate)are compared.

Because of the blatant inaccuracy in one of the two items compared, i have no faith whatsoever in the accuracy of the other figures, no respect for the person who produced the chart and less for those who use it without questioning its accuracy & limitations.

In my experience, debate works like this: people make reasoned arguments based on facts. They listen (or, in this case, read) what others say before responding.

[wexfordman]

How about a discussion on the thousands of teachers in temporary posts, not the privleged few on high salaries.

Interesting topic that actually, one would wonder why we dont hear teacher unions shouting more about this. Reading on another post about vec teachers and part time teachers, and they seem to get a raw deal, more from the perspective that the part time status is long term (not the terms and conditions of the part time, just the fact that it tends to be so lon imho).

I wonder why teacher unions are not shouting about this more ? Also, how much of the temporary teacher posts are related to other work practice/terms and conditions such as unpaid leave, career breaks, teachers running for election etc. I realise some of these are being curbed now, but what sort of impact did they have overall, and why have trade union remained so relatively quiet about this ?

[wretchedwilbur]

All you whingers - you could have been teachers too , had you been bright enough. So suck it up !!

[Dreaded_Estate]

Perhaps Lyons might do some research on relative class sizes. Why are there no graphs on class sizes?
Of course it would not suit his argument.

Why should class sizes effect teachers pay?

[diablo]

Any chance we could get ACCURATE figures? (primary school in ireland is 183 days, which does not include first communion/confirmation days or saturdays spent in school while children are being assessed by psychologist)

Any chance we could also get an ACCURATE comparison of class contact hours and class size?

Why were these countries (and only these countries) selected for the purpose of comparison?

Amazing how only those statistics which suits one's prejudice are given.
If we are going to have a reasonable and fair discussion, let us compare all aspects of teachers' pay /conditions of employment.

That was my first impression. It seems to be a selective list of countries. UK, Sweden, Denmark excluded (all high cost of living countries). However, I still think Irish teachers need to spend more days in the classroom and less on paid leave. i.e. 3 months Summer break for post primary and 2 weeks at Easter.

[Scorpio]

Any chance we could get ACCURATE figures? (primary school in ireland is 183 days, which does not include first communion/confirmation days or saturdays spent in school while children are being assessed by psychologist)

Any chance we could also get an ACCURATE comparison of class contact hours and class size?

Why were these countries (and only these countries) selected for the purpose of comparison?

Amazing how only those statistics which suits one's prejudice are given.

If we are going to have a reasonable and fair discussion, let us compare all aspects of teachers' pay /conditions of employment.

If you actually read the blog, those countries are our currency brethren. When we look around our Irish economy and try to bring our costs back into line, we have to see who is overvalued relative to the eurozone as we don't have the option of devaluation any more.

Also, if you read the blog and comments, you would have found out that the stats come from here: Education at a Glance 2008: OECD Indicators and from the OECD tax database. In the by now lengthy comments section, the author even gives the tables in the reports if you're interested in doing up the chart again...