Teachers Pay

[Kevin Doyle]

I have no amnesia Kevin, that was punchdrunks quote not mine.... I was replying to him/her

The post is here

The quote is yours, its there for all to see.

[Proposition Joe]

A stab is not good enough, we are talking about peoples wages here. Either you can come up a`with a formula that determines fairly difference in performance that warrant increased payments or you cannot not. Guessing that a teacher is doing a better job is not acceptable.

No guessing is required. Are you telling me that you couldn't tell the difference between the great teachers and the terrible ones when you were at school?

No need to cast your mind back very far, just back to last week should do it.

Matters such as attendance and punctuality are basic factors and are of little value with regard to outcomes.

How can the teacher actually teach if they're not physically there?

And if the lack of teaching "has little value regard to outcomes", wouldn't the converse also be true? That the presence of teaching also has little value?

I have to take issue with you there on behalf of the much maligned teachers in this country. Shame on you Hopi, for suggesting that their efforts have no impact on outcomes.

I'm sure the unions would be more than interested if the government wanted to introduce such attedance bonuses.

Now you're really getting into la-la land. A bonus for turning up to work? Oh, yeah that's what PMDS is ...

The scheme is not what is under discussion here, in fact the scheme is more to do with attracting teachers than anything else.

No, it more about retaining the best teachers and incentivizing the mediocre to aim for higher standards.

In addition, participation in the scheme is voluntary.

Sure, its voluntary. You can volunteer to be assessed and run the risk of maybe not getting the extra money. Or you can decline to apply, and then definitely not get rewarded for your excellence. No prizes for guessing what type of teachers would be volunteering and what type declining. Purely on principal of course

[wexfordman]

Pah, look again, it is not a PR scheme, it is an additional supplementary income available to those who fulfill certain criteria and submit themselves for evaluation, none of which is contingent on student’s grades.

A teacher can mentor, coach and further educate himself and be awarded the additional pay by way of being excepted into a new Excellent Teacher grade, posts permitting. It’s a promotion in everything but name. It is not a PR scheme.

No go away you pigeon minded fool.

A bit of persepctive for fecck sake kevin. The original point of mentioning PR pay was in comaprison to the draw backs of the current pay scale system. We have teachers moaning about extra curricular activites, and them moaning abou pay scales, do you not think there is merit from moving some way away from the defined pay scale system towards some form of pr pay, which the above system is so stop being so feckin pedantic.

Serioulsy, teachers complain about class sizes and the workload it creates on them, why not have this as part of pr related pay ? Why not have some form of penalty for the government, and reward for the teacher for genuinly performing above the levels of his/her colleauges!!

[Kevin Doyle]

No guessing is required. Are you telling me that you couldn't tell the difference between the great teachers and the terrible ones when you were at school?

No need to cast your mind back very far, just back to last week should do it.



How can the teacher actually teach if they're not physically there?

And if the lack of teaching "has little value regard to outcomes", wouldn't the converse also be true? That the presence of teaching also has little value?

I have to take issue with you there on behalf of the much maligned teachers in this country. Shame on you Hopi, for suggesting that their efforts have no impact on outcomes.



Now you're really getting into la-la land. A bonus for turning up to work? Oh, yeah that's what PMDS is ...



No, it more about retaining the best teachers and incentivizing the mediocre to aim for higher standards.



Sure, its voluntary. You can volunteer to be assessed and run the risk of maybe not getting the extra money. Or you can decline to apply, and then definitely not get rewarded for your excellence. No prizes for guessing what type of teachers would be volunteering and what type declining. Purely on principal of course

Get back to work....those market forces are breathing down your neck

[wexfordman]

The post is here

The quote is yours, its there for all to see.

READ BACK A BIT MORE YOU MORON!!! Obvioulsy you are not even reading the thread fully if you failed to notice, just jumping to conclusions once again. Just a few posts before, it is stated by punchdrunk not me, the quote you posted was due to missing [quote/] in my replying post, pretty obvious to see, and only the most pedantic petty fool would waste time dwelling on it or making an issue of it as you have.

You are a FOOL with nothing better to offer!!

[Kevin Doyle]

A bit of persepctive for fecck sake kevin. The original point of mentioning PR pay was in comaprison to the draw backs of the current pay scale system. We have teachers moaning about extra curricular activites, and them moaning abou pay scales, do you not think there is merit from moving some way away from the defined pay scale system towards some form of pr pay, which the above system is so stop being so feckin pedantic.

There is nothing pedantic about not calling this a PR scheme, it isn’t.

Teachers can slog their guts out, fulfill all the criteria toward being considered for the post of Excellent teacher and still not be promoted/awarded the remuneration because of lack of vacancies.

This is not a PR scheme, it is a promotional scheme. Pay related bonuses/awards are never contingent on the structural make up of a company.


Nice try lads, but must do better.

[hopi watcher]

No guessing is required. Are you telling me that you couldn't tell the difference between the great teachers and the terrible ones when you were at school?

No need to cast your mind back very far, just back to last week should do it.



How can the teacher actually teach if they're not physically there?

And if the lack of teaching "has little value regard to outcomes", wouldn't the converse also be true? That the presence of teaching also has little value?

I have to take issue with you there on behalf of the much maligned teachers in this country. Shame on you Hopi, for suggesting that their efforts have no impact on outcomes.



Now you're really getting into la-la land. A bonus for turning up to work? Oh, yeah that's what PMDS is ...



No, it more about retaining the best teachers and incentivizing the mediocre to aim for higher standards.



Sure, its voluntary. You can volunteer to be assessed and run the risk of maybe not getting the extra money. Or you can decline to apply, and then definitely not get rewarded for your excellence. No prizes for guessing what type of teachers would be volunteering and what type declining. Purely on principal of course

Now you are waffling. All of this has nothing to do with the issue under discussion. The scheme in the UK is not a scheme to measure performance so as to determine pay rates, it is entirely different and arbitary. In addition, the govenrment has engaged a gaggle of lawyers who are currently trying to prepare a defence as the inevitable dicriminatuon claim comes in. The method for giving some teachers more money has no scienctific basis. The scheme BTW has nothing to do with 'excellence' At least you could read the detail of the scheme, it is an attempt to attract people to the profession in the face of shortage and low qualified persons applying due to the adverse publicity of reacent years regarding the classroom environment.

[cavok]

Wexfordman

Dont sweat it...

By Jan '10 Teachers will be taking home at least 30% less than they were in Jan '09

Its not your battle, the players are moving and the cuts are inevitable. Rest now.

[wexfordman]

There is nothing pedantic about not calling this a PR scheme, it isn’t.

Thats a matter of opinion, when you take the course of the thread into consideration (of course that would mena having to read it without jumping to conclusions now kevin), it is pedantic.

Teachers can slog their guts out, fulfill all the criteria toward being considered for the post of Excellent teacher and still not be promoted/awarded the remuneration because of lack of vacancies.

This scheme here BBC NEWS | UK | UK Education | Green Paper | Performance pay: Head to head (dated 1999) is not about number of posts, it is not a promotion scheme, it says nothing about promotion.

It has its merits, only a fool would dismiss them

[wexfordman]

Wexfordman

Dont sweat it...

By Jan '10 Teachers will be taking home at least 30% less than they were in Jan '09

Its not your battle, the players are moving and the cuts are inevitable. Rest now.

Oh I know, but you know what, the best people, the really best people to determine how best to structure reform in the ps, on how to run services properly are the ones actually doing it at the moment, they would and could make a far better job of it that whats comming, if the just faced reality, if they could drop the mindset of job protection at whatever cost, dont touch our pay and benefits, work practices are their as much to protect jobs as to run a service etc etc.

They need to take it on the chin, dump the bad work practices, dump the daft pay and benefit perks, face up to lower pay (we all are) dump colleagues who are not interested in the work they do, dump people who are not required, propose real reform rather than whinging all the time.

Dump the unions lads, they are killing you.... hey are killing all of us the same way that this ********************ty government is.