Teachers Pay

[rebelexpat]

hopi, I hope you dont wet yourself with anticipation knowing that I wont and cant give the detail to such a ridiculous question. I see you going down the path, "what you dont know, you have no right to an opinion" again, and being an idiot all over again.Dont try and be clever and tell me cos I dont know the profession, I should'nt have an opinion or dont know what I'm talking about, that attitude woudl bar most posters on this site including you from discussing anything outside thier own profession.

Go back and read the posts hopi, I have made it quite clear about why I even menioned the subject of pr pay, but the typical union heads afraid to come out of the shoal immediatley jumped on it saying no, never work, cant do it, you dont know what your talking about. The fact that as kevin mentioned it is difficult to see it working in any other country, is more to do with the opposition from ps/unionised teachers who see a far easier wage in the current system rather than try and be innovative and introduce real incenctives.

Lets take a stab, some basic elements that could be included in pr pay (these comming from a novice, I am sure far greater input could come from reasoned proffesionals within the sector)

1) Attendance
2) Time keeping
3) Class size
4) Training and development
5) Extra curriclular activity (I can see that one throwing you off your seat)
6) Class performance and individual performance (this can be difficult to measure, but not impossible)

I think that all of those points have merit except for the last. Progressive education requires the more holistic development of the child - hence my reference to Gardner earlier. Effectively, this is simply impossible to quantify.

I really would like to know who believes education should be delivered by way of the 3 Rs - would appreciate if you could shed some light!

[hopi watcher]

hopi, I hope you dont wet yourself with anticipation knowing that I wont and cant give the detail to such a ridiculous question. I see you going down the path, "what you dont know, you have no right to an opinion" again, and being an idiot all over again.Dont try and be clever and tell me cos I dont know the profession, I should'nt have an opinion or dont know what I'm talking about, that attitude woudl bar most posters on this site including you from discussing anything outside thier own profession.

Go back and read the posts hopi, I have made it quite clear about why I even menioned the subject of pr pay, but the typical union heads afraid to come out of the shoal immediatley jumped on it saying no, never work, cant do it, you dont know what your talking about. The fact that as kevin mentioned it is difficult to see it working in any other country, is more to do with the opposition from ps/unionised teachers who see a far easier wage in the current system rather than try and be innovative and introduce real incenctives.

Lets take a stab, some basic elements that could be included in pr pay (these comming from a novice, I am sure far greater input could come from reasoned proffesionals within the sector)

1) Attendance
2) Time keeping
3) Class size
4) Training and development
5) Extra curriclular activity (I can see that one throwing you off your seat)
6) Class performance and individual performance (this can be difficult to measure, but not impossible)

A stab is not good enough, we are talking about peoples wages here. Either you can come up a`with a formula that determines fairly difference in performance that warrant increased payments or you cannot not. Guessing that a teacher is doing a better job is not acceptable.
Matters such as attendance and punctuality are basic factors and are of little value with regard to outcomes. I'm sure the unions would be more than interested if the government wanted to introduce such attedance bonuses. Your pouint at 6 is the core point and this would be extremely difficult to measure and would cost a fortune as each child would require continuous assessment as regard their capacity to learn.

[Kevin Doyle]

No country in the world, you say?

Maybe you count our closest neighbour as a kingdom, not a country?

Kevin, when will you learn? You can't keep making things up. Google has been invented. You'll be caught out every time.

As has been explained to you, that is not a PR scheme. What was done in the UK is to reward teachers for acquiring new skills and meeting "personal professional development" targets much the same way as they do here. You are the one making things up in this instance.

Run along now. Googled arguements indeed.

[wexfordman]

I really would like to know who believes education should be delivered by way of the 3 Rs - would appreciate if you could shed some light!

I would rebel, except I cant, I never said anything about 3 R's!!

[Kevin Doyle]

I would rebel, except I cant, I never said anything about 3 R's!!

Em you did.

The primary school curriculum should be recast to place far greater emphasis on the three Rs. You then build on that.

Are you suffering from amnesia?

[Proposition Joe]

As has been explained to you, that is not a PR scheme. What was done in the UK is to reward teachers for acquiring new skills and meeting "personal professional development" targets much the same way as they do here. You are the one making things up in this instance.

Run along now. Googled arguements indeed.

I like your late addition of "Googled arguements indeed". Your thought process is so slow, such a cutting put-down only occurs to you after you've pressed submit.

Now if you looked at the official documentation for the scheme, you'd see that its not some PMDS-like scam with mar-dhea targets. Instead, actual results do count:

E8. Have teaching skills which lead to excellent results and outcomes

[hopi watcher]

I like your late addition of "Googled arguements indeed". Your thought process is so slow, such a cutting put-down only occurs to you after you've pressed submit.

Now if you looked at the official documentation for the scheme, you'd see that its not some PMDS-like scam with mar-dhea targets. Instead, actual results do count:

The scheme is not what is under discussion here, in fact the scheme is more to do with attracting teachers than anything else. In addition, participation in the scheme is voluntary.

[rebelexpat]

Do these figures take into account the teachers who worked a 14hr. day so that the kids could enjoy a decent school tour?
Or the evenings spent training the school football teams?
Or the time spent landscaping the school grounds because there was no money for a contractor?
Or the Sundays given to conducting the school choir in the local church?
Or the Entire weekends given up to help children in the local Feis?

Or the countless evenings given over to Confirmation/Communion posters?
Or the lunchtimes spent attending to the cut knee, split head etc.....

It's amazing how few understand that the majority of us bust a gut for this job because we like doing it! We spend our entire careers going the extra mile and but for a few who should have opted for something other than the Training College, the bulk of us are hugely committed professionals with a genuine interest in children's welfare.

[Kevin Doyle]

I like your late addition of "Googled arguements indeed". Your thought process is so slow, such a cutting put-down only occurs to you after you've pressed submit.

Now if you looked at the official documentation for the scheme, you'd see that its not some PMDS-like scam with mar-dhea targets. Instead, actual results do count:

Pah, look again, it is not a PR scheme, it is an additional supplementary income available to those who fulfill certain criteria and submit themselves for evaluation, none of which is contingent on student’s grades.

A teacher can mentor, coach and further educate himself and be awarded the additional pay by way of being excepted into a new Excellent Teacher grade, posts permitting. It’s a promotion in everything but name. It is not a PR scheme.

No go away you pigeon minded fool.

[wexfordman]

Em you did.



Are you suffering from amnesia?

The primary school curriculum should be recast to place far greater emphasis on the three Rs. You then build on that.

I have no amnesia Kevin, that was punchdrunks quote not mine.... I was replying to him/her