Why was a medical school opened in UL?
How many medical schools are in the Greater Manchester area?
How cmuch does it cost per annum and how was it justified in a country of four million with five existing medical schools?
Not only have we massively overpaid university and IT lecturers but we also have needless replication of courses across the sectors.
How much longer can this go on?
How long does it take to check the background via Google and then rephrase it into a proper opening post for discussion? Less I suspect than it would take to read the above questions. This is a political discussion site not askpols.com.Originally Posted by birthday
Dan Sullivan. I was back but we still couldn't all have a vote.
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The issue is - will the medical graduates from UL be employed by the HSE?
I ask that because of the employment position of physiotherapists and nurses.
A new training school for physiotherapists was opened in 2002 at UL (in response to a report about shortages) and the first graduates emerged in 2006 making the total graduating that year about 150 (ie taking into account existing schools at UCD, Trinity and RCSI). But in recent years HSE has employed very few newly qualified physios despite patient waiting lists. In fact some sanctioned posts have been abolished. Many have emigrated or have had to change careers. A total waste of tax payers money and dreadful for them and bad for patients.
Nursing training places were increased by 50% around 1999(they increased places in the exisiting schools rather than opening a new one). This was in response to the shortage of nurses. There was an international recruitment campaign and Philipino nurses in particular were given work permits. Now many recent Irish nursing graduates have no work or short term contracts which will not be renewed due to the financial crisis. Many of the philipino nurses now have permanent jobs (source Dail question) even though they were brought in to deal with the shortage while Irish nurses were trained.
We need to train more doctors. For years we have sold half the places in medical schools to wealthy foreigners and that suited doctors here as it kept numbers down and their earnings potential high. The UL medical school I think came about with the change to graduate entry medical training (in addition to undergraduate training) and universities had to put in proposals/tenders for a graduate programme. Presumably UL was successful in its tender. Students on the four year graduate medical programme have to pay big FEES as they have already availed of the 'free' fees scheme which looks certain to be abolished. The Ul medical School may not cost much in the context of the fees.
UL is the role model for WIT and any other institutions with delusions of grandeur, all you need is some sympathetic politicians and benefactors then the hard cash from Government should follow.
Oh you're trolling for trouble now!
Dan Sullivan. I was back but we still couldn't all have a vote.
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Ah a UL graduate i see, it is true though. This is how we do things in Ireland.
What is true? that UL or WIT are "institutions with delusions of grandeur"?
Dan Sullivan. I was back but we still couldn't all have a vote.
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There are a few things that need to be clarified here:
1. There was a clear demand identified in the area of graduate-entry medicine in the 2001 Health Strategy and various educational institutions tendered
2. UL was awarded the majority of places purely and solely on merit. In fact a friend of mine was on the HEA interviewing panel and informed me that UCD, in particular, displayed incredible arrogance
3. As it is a graduate entry course, the students will be paying significant fees, which will defray a high proportion of the costs
4. Significant funding for the Medical School was provided to the UL Foundation via Atlantic Philanthropies, i.e. 4.7mn over the period 2008-2018. I would recommend that anyone who is interested should read The Billionaire Who Wasn't by Conor O'Cleary. It is an excellent account of Chuck Feeney, the benefactor behind Atlantic and who through his altruistic munificence has donated greatly to all universities, but particularly to UL. This is in contrast to the self-aggrandising hubris of of our own home-grown philanthropists, who donate comaparatively small amounts to certain select univerisities, demand recognition for this though Chancellorships and naming rights and then patronise the Irish educational system from foreign exiles.
5. The internecine warfare and animosity in the Irish education system needs to stop. As a recent letter to the Irish Times pointed out "there are 7 universities in the State for a population of 4.2mn (1.67 universities per 1mn population). This should be compared with Massachusetts, which has 17 universities for a population of 6.5mn (2.6 universities per 1mn population), including Harvard, MIT, Tufts University, Boston University and Boston College, as well as several liberal arts colleges. Indeed, the Greater Boston Area is regarded by many as the intellectual and academic capital of the world, something that was fostered by the Boston Brahmins of the 18th and 19th Centuries, and has been referred to as the Athens of America". The entire academic community in Ireland needs to consolidate and integrate and avoid academic politics, snobbery and bickering,
On inspection of the Atlantic Philanthropies website, it appears that an additional 4.8mn was provided for student housing for the Medical School, giving a total of 9.5mn. All I can say is Chuck Feeney truly is a saint. Anyone who knows the history of the PLTRI third-level funding programme will attest to that. And rather than attacking this development, maybe one should query the salaries of academic medical consultants (apparently about 280k) or the salaries of university administrative staff. Didn't Prof. Des Fitzgerald in UCD earn 400k last year? Maybe Hugh Brady should reappraise the rancorous feelings he has fostered in the third-level sector.
There are a few things that need to be clarified here:
1. There was a clear demand identified in the area of graduate-entry medicine in the 2001 Health Strategy and various educational institutions tendered
2. UL was awarded the majority of places purely and solely on merit. In fact a friend of mine was on the HEA interviewing panel and informed me that UCD, in particular, displayed incredible arrogance
3. As it is a graduate entry course, the students will be paying significant fees, which will defray a high proportion of the costs
4. Significant funding for the Medical School was provided to the UL Foundation via Atlantic Philanthropies, i.e. 4.7mn over the period 2008-2018. I would recommend that anyone who is interested should read The Billionaire Who Wasn't by Conor O'Cleary. It is an excellent account of Chuck Feeney, the benefactor behind Atlantic and who through his altruistic munificence has donated greatly to all universities, but particularly to UL. This is in contrast to the self-aggrandising hubris of of our own home-grown philanthropists, who donate comaparatively small amounts to certain select univerisities, demand recognition for this though Chancellorships and naming rights and then patronise the Irish educational system from foreign exiles.
5. The internecine warfare and animosity in the Irish education system needs to stop. As a recent letter to the Irish Times pointed out "there are 7 universities in the State for a population of 4.2mn (1.67 universities per 1mn population). This should be compared with Massachusetts, which has 17 universities for a population of 6.5mn (2.6 universities per 1mn population), including Harvard, MIT, Tufts University, Boston University and Boston College, as well as several liberal arts colleges. Indeed, the Greater Boston Area is regarded by many as the intellectual and academic capital of the world, something that was fostered by the Boston Brahmins of the 18th and 19th Centuries, and has been referred to as the Athens of America". The entire academic community in Ireland needs to consolidate and integrate and avoid academic politics, snobbery and bickering,
Some background here, Thanks.
I'm not at all surprised to hear of UCD arrogance and its good to see that the taxpayer is not footing all the bill but what is the cost to the taxpayer?
Do you think we can afford six medical schools in a state of this size? It would have made more sense to extend the numbers attending some of the other universities which already had existing facilities.
I am a little confused on your point about consolidation. You indicate that we have a lower ratio of universities to population than Boston area (1.67 v 2.6) and you promote the idea of the benefits of diverse range of education institutions but yet you are calling for consolidation?
I suspect snobbery and bickering will always be in education; its the blatant waste of taxpayers money that concerns me. The HEA seemed to have overseen a massive waste of resources in recent years. There is a significant replication of courses across colleges and pay rates for pampered academic staff way beyond UK!!
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