university salaries - what is going on?

[Reality bites]

The topic is covered in depth in today's Irish Independent: it is an absolute disgrace. Revealed: €10m pay bonanza for the top university earners - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

I have to disagree with some of your anger, yes the amounts being paid to administrative staff are ridiculous but what the article doesn't mention is the numbers of professor/researchers who get the big salaries.

These research salaries are topped up through research grants that these profs bring into the university that fund salaries for research staff etc.
Plus each grant gives an overhead award to the uni.

Basically the admin heads have used the loosened HEA rules to give themselves big awards.

The reason the rules were loosened was to recruit world class research staff which is valid in a global research economy where US universities can give massive salaries to recruit the best staff.

For example its mentioned earlier in the thread the Phds in research labs earn 17k. But phd students in these labs are basically apprentices, doing most of the dog work.

Also, the uni charges 5k a year to register these students with little benefits to the 'student/worker' apart from a student card as all expenses are paid from either the granting body eg IRCSET/HRB/SFI or researcher grant itself.

There is a labyrinth of funding mazes being used to fund staff and research in Irish unis and grandstanding populist articles like these don't address the realities of how the system works.

Most lecturers in Irish unis that just teach are lazy sods, its the researchers that bring in all the money and increase the prestige of the uni and are the future of this economy. you have to pay to retain those talents.

Most irish people are still in a mindset that unis should be about teaching but government strategy is to shift focus to research and innovation to provide a driving force for future economic growth as shown by examples from the US, Japan, UK and Germany in 70s, 80s and 90s.

[Utopian Hermit Monk]

Todays Indo


[SIZE="5"]Irish academics earning up to double UK counterparts[/SIZE]

By Katherine Donnelly

Wednesday April 01 2009

IRISH university professors are paid almost double the salaries earned by their counterparts in Britain.

Other academics here are also far ahead in the pay stakes, with their massive salaries outstripping even those paid at Oxford and Cambridge.

University top earners are enjoying massive pay packages in spite of the relatively low positioning of Irish universities in international league tables....

Irish university presidents' salaries were outshone by 29 high-fliers who are in receipt of exceptional remuneration deals, sanctioned by the Higher Education Authority, to attract them into key positions.

The Irish Independent recently revealed the top earner last year was UCD vice-president for research, Professor Des Fitzgerald, whose package is potentially worth up to €495,000-a-year.

However, this was restricted to €409,000 because a performance bonus was withheld on cost-saving grounds.

In 2007/08:

* University professors in Ireland were paid an average of about €136,000 compared with a UK average of €75,459 -- and €88,593 in Cambridge and €81,514 in Oxford.
* Senior lecturers in Ireland had an average salary of €82,668 compared with a UK average of €50,024.
* Lecturers in Ireland had an average salary of €67,502, while the UK average was €41,153....


And they still have the nerve to scream about being under-funded!! Irish academic scam merchants need to be reined in.

[Horace Horse]

Why are there so many unoriginal and uncreative Irish people whose only guide in life is "what they do in the UK"?

If everybody in the UK were to kill themselves would you say "Well, in the UK they're all killing themselves" and put a gun in your own mouth?

It's one of the many bad effects of having lost (abandoned) our Irish language. We no longer think for ourself. All we care about is "what they do in the UK..."

Idiot. Think for yourself.

[BodyofEvidence]

Todays Indo


[SIZE=5]Irish academics earning up to double UK counterparts[/SIZE]

By Katherine Donnelly

Wednesday April 01 2009

IRISH university professors are paid almost double the salaries earned by their counterparts in Britain.

Other academics here are also far ahead in the pay stakes, with their massive salaries outstripping even those paid at Oxford and Cambridge.

University top earners are enjoying massive pay packages in spite of the relatively low positioning of Irish universities in international league tables....

Irish university presidents' salaries were outshone by 29 high-fliers who are in receipt of exceptional remuneration deals, sanctioned by the Higher Education Authority, to attract them into key positions.

The Irish Independent recently revealed the top earner last year was UCD vice-president for research, Professor Des Fitzgerald, whose package is potentially worth up to €495,000-a-year.

However, this was restricted to €409,000 because a performance bonus was withheld on cost-saving grounds.

In 2007/08:

* University professors in Ireland were paid an average of about €136,000 compared with a UK average of €75,459 -- and €88,593 in Cambridge and €81,514 in Oxford.
* Senior lecturers in Ireland had an average salary of €82,668 compared with a UK average of €50,024.
* Lecturers in Ireland had an average salary of €67,502, while the UK average was €41,153....


And they still have the nerve to scream about being under-funded!! Irish academic scam merchants need to be reined in.

I think the screaming is about the system being underfunded. Lets say you fired every single professor. Out. Every last one. Now would that improve, in a material manner, the funding poistion f the universities? there are approx 100 professors in TCD - so at an average of 135k pa , over a total college budget of 240m would that help? Yes, unless you ask : are these people taking IN more than their salaries.
Its not as simplistic as you would have us believe UHM

[TommyO'Brien]

I heard an interesting story recently concerning salaries in the public sector. Turns out a certain individual who works in one of the Universities - earning circa 100k i think - is also working for another state body who pay him circa 75k. the work in the second body involves 'project work' and he appears on site about once a fortnight by all accounts.

Anyway, funnily enough I was talking to this individual about three weeks ago, and he tells me, in his own words 'he is earning very little' that he was 'just a poor guy' and that the people at the top in his university are 'creaming it' and that the difference in salaries has to be revisited - i.e. that he should be earning more.

what do posters think?

Please stop creating these annoying 'what is going on?' threads. The titles are cliched and tabloidy.

[Utopian Hermit Monk]

there are approx 100 professors in TCD - so at an average of 135k pa , over a total college budget of 240m would that help? Yes, unless you ask : are these people taking IN more than their salaries.
Its not as simplistic as you would have us believe UHM

Simplistic? I think not.

On the basis of your numbers, those TCD professors' salaries amount to about €13.5 million.
Multiply that by 5 (i.e. 6 universities, but some with less profs than TCD), and you get about €67.5 million.
Then, add in senior lectureres, administrators, etc., all paid considerably more than their counterparts in the UK, the USA or other European countries, and you will easily reach a figure of €200 million in salaries for the senior tier of academics.

If they were obliged to take a cut of 30%, approximately €60 million would be freed up.

Would that make a difference? Of course it would!

€60 million would pay the fees of about 12,000 students (e.g. recently unemployed people, who could spend the next 3/4 getting a 3rd level qualification).

Part time, mature students are constantly told "There is no more money". They are obliged to turn to organizations like the Society of St Vincent de Paul and other private charities for help. €60 million saved from inflated salaries would go a long way towards improving access to the universities for mature students (especially those from disadvantaged areas).

As for the balance between what people are paid and the revenue their work brings into an organization, you could apply that same argument to shop assistants in your local SPAR! In the real world, that's not how things work. Most surplus revenue should be reinvested in the organization/instution itself, improving its resources, infrastructure, programmes, social outreach, etc.

[KingKane]

Todays Indo


[SIZE=5]Irish academics earning up to double UK counterparts[/SIZE]

By Katherine Donnelly

Wednesday April 01 2009

IRISH university professors are paid almost double the salaries earned by their counterparts in Britain.

Other academics here are also far ahead in the pay stakes, with their massive salaries outstripping even those paid at Oxford and Cambridge.

University top earners are enjoying massive pay packages in spite of the relatively low positioning of Irish universities in international league tables....

Irish university presidents' salaries were outshone by 29 high-fliers who are in receipt of exceptional remuneration deals, sanctioned by the Higher Education Authority, to attract them into key positions.

The Irish Independent recently revealed the top earner last year was UCD vice-president for research, Professor Des Fitzgerald, whose package is potentially worth up to €495,000-a-year.

However, this was restricted to €409,000 because a performance bonus was withheld on cost-saving grounds.

In 2007/08:

* University professors in Ireland were paid an average of about €136,000 compared with a UK average of €75,459 -- and €88,593 in Cambridge and €81,514 in Oxford.
* Senior lecturers in Ireland had an average salary of €82,668 compared with a UK average of €50,024.
* Lecturers in Ireland had an average salary of €67,502, while the UK average was €41,153....


And they still have the nerve to scream about being under-funded!! Irish academic scam merchants need to be reined in.

I hate to ask it but would those € figures for the UK salaries have anything to do with the collapse in sterling? Also, I'm not au fait with all the salary bands for all the universities in Ireland but €82,668 average for a senior lecturer doesn't sound right to me. If the average is high here one other possible reason is that many of the profs are there a long time and the system of pay increases related to longevity may have them up at the top of the allowable bands. A number of Profs are funded by companies and the like from outside of the university sector.

In other words where is the raw data?

[Utopian Hermit Monk]

I'm not au fait with all the salary bands for all the universities in Ireland but €82,668 average for a senior lecturer doesn't sound right to me. If the average is high here one other possible reason is that many of the profs are there a long time...

That €82,668 is probably low rather than high.
The old-timers earn more than €100,000.


current UCD scale for senior lecturers/adminstrators:

Senior Lecturer
Code Position Pay Rate (Effective 01/09/2008)
0106 95 SENIOR LECTURER
1 €72,011.00 p.a.
2 €76,270.00 p.a.
3 €80,519.00 p.a.
4 €84,748.00 p.a.
5 €88,989.00 p.a.
6 €93,244.00 p.a.
7 €97,479.00 p.a.
8 €101,695.00 p.a.


Senior Administrative Officer
Code Position Point Pay Rate
0152 95 SENIOR ADMINISTRATIVE II
1 €94,128.00 p.a.
2 €100,458.00 p.a.
3 €106,926.00 p.a.
4 €113,138.00 p.a.
5 €119,481.00 p.a.
6 €125,818.00 p.a.

[Proposition Joe]

Yes, unless you ask : are these people taking IN more than their salaries.

Fair enough if all this research money was coming in from external sources.

But if its funded by IRCSET, or SFI or the upcoming €300 million under the Programme for Research in Third Level Institutions, then the argument doesn't really hold. It still public money funded by Irish tax payers. So its not as if their salaries are being "paid back" in any real sense.