Time to increase University participation

[odie1kanobe]

It may seem strange going into a recession to be increasing participation in 3rd level education but in many ways its a clever strategy provided you tailor it to the disciplines that can be productively used when the recession ends.

If you want to study Arts then fine you will pay fees, Sciences, Electronics, Engineering and disciplines where majority of year should end up in productive i.e. non Public sector should be free or very limited fees.

Ultimately people vote with their pockets so paying fees for Arts or free for Sciences changes the viewpoint most dramatically.

Option 1 is to pay people welfare to do nothing

Option 2 support them at Uni then you have a chance of gaining a productive resources to the country in later years.

Ok arguement may be that People in option 2 may not be the same as in 1. But in taking people out of economy you may provide some more jobs for people who otherwise would have been on welfare.

It also allows some planning to go on in developing a post recession economy.

[Mr.De-Regulation]

There's no point encouraging people to do science if they dont want to. End up with just high drop out rates.

I say bring corporate scholarships. Business A wants engineers, they go find talented engineering students that struggling to pay their way. Bam, everyone is happy.

[Colonel Kurtz]

"If you want to study Arts then fine you".

OK - I took that out of context but it seems that this is almost what you want to do...

I am not sure why you place so little value on the arts. I agree that we should be putting more through uni during the recession/depression. I think it would be worthwhile if even employed people cut back on working hours and salary and take up some part time study.

[LeftIsRight]

If you want to study Arts then fine you will pay fees, Sciences, Electronics, Engineering and disciplines where majority of year should end up in productive i.e. non Public sector should be free or very limited fees.

If I understand this badly constructed sentence correctly, you want to produce productive Scientists and Engingeers by educating them in, according to yourself, non-productive public sector universities. Do you not see the contradiction here?

[Outlander]

The question is moot. Recession will drive the brightest and best back to choose those subjects which give them the best chance of getting a job; Engineering, Medicine, etc.

[PhoenixIreland]

I see....punish people for choosing certain courses in order to drive them into subjects they would not otherwise go for?

Bad idea, though your hearts in the right place.
The problems in Sciences and Engineering start in second level, and science already had plenty of people in it who dont' want to do it, and just went into it because an incentive system (in this case 300 points) nudged them into it, we don't need to make that situation worse, the drop out rates in science is already really bad.

[odie1kanobe]

If I understand this badly constructed sentence correctly, you want to produce productive Scientists and Engingeers by educating them in, according to yourself, non-productive public sector universities. Do you not see the contradiction here?

Nope as Universities will ties to external disciplines or even internal one can be very productive. Cambridge University UK has developed a biotech area close by, Warwick University has developed engineering and manufacturing close by, Old NIHE model was done in conjunction with business, MIT US has developed many specialisms over last 30 years with Industry.

Many businesses will happily take on short term people where they understand there can be a real benefit to them.

[odie1kanobe]

I see....punish people for choosing certain courses in order to drive them into subjects they would not otherwise go for?

Bad idea, though your hearts in the right place.
The problems in Sciences and Engineering start in second level, and science already had plenty of people in it who dont' want to do it, and just went into it because an incentive system (in this case 300 points) nudged them into it, we don't need to make that situation worse, the drop out rates in science is already really bad.

Turn it around then and return all fees plus an incentive if they stay the course and graduate.

[Factorem]

it may seem strange going into a recession to be increasing participation in 3rd level education but in many ways its a clever strategy provided you tailor it to the disciplines that can be productively used when the recession ends.

If you want to study arts then fine you will pay fees, sciences, electronics, engineering and disciplines where majority of year should end up in productive i.e. Non public sector should be free or very limited fees.

Ultimately people vote with their pockets so paying fees for arts or free for sciences changes the viewpoint most dramatically.

Option 1 is to pay people welfare to do nothing

option 2 support them at uni then you have a chance of gaining a productive resources to the country in later years.

Ok arguement may be that people in option 2 may not be the same as in 1. But in taking people out of economy you may provide some more jobs for people who otherwise would have been on welfare.

It also allows some planning to go on in developing a post recession economy.

[color="lime"]
it's too late.

Ye had your chance and ye blew it.[/color]

[PhoenixIreland]

Turn it around then and return all fees plus an incentive if they stay the course and graduate.

This site always trends too much towards sliver bullet solutions.

I don't think I would have been able to afford my course if they had fees, I'm sure I could have got a loan, but I'm not psyched about starting out on day one after I graduate with 8-12,000 in debt.

I don't even think providing scholarships to people studying those needed subjects would be a good idea for the same reasons I mentioned in the last post.

What I'd like to see is massive changes to science at second level, including making science compulsory, or maybe give an option between Eng and Sci and you have to pick a science subject or Eng.

The problem with science as it currently stands is everyone is picking biology because it's perceived as being easier than the other two.
We had 4 people (one higher level student) in our physics class at my school and the school didn't offer chemistry.

The attitude problem towards science needs to be fixed at primary or junior second level.
It's too late at third level.