Third level fees = higher registration fees.

[FakeViking]

They should be persued for the money. Obviously they can refuse and there is niothing that can be done. But even people who move overseas have to come home some time.

So what will happen is this. The students take out their State loan, gets their education. And emigrates. They can't be pursued for the money, so the state loses on each side of the transaction, by paying for a graduate who'll pay their tax in Oz.

Of course the simple solution that dare not speak it's name is a more progressive Taxation system, where all tax breaks for higher earners are eliminated, all income paid in the state is deemed taxable regardless of the supposed domicile of the person.

[SPN]

Absolutely. It is bloody disgusting!

Yep!

The Vintners Association will have something to say about this, don't you worry!

[imokyrok]

I was fortunate enough to qualify for the County Council grant which paid my fees back in the 80's. If I had had to find several thousand euro on top of living expenses there is no doubt in my mind that my five years of university education would not have happened at all.

As for means testing - well I imagine that would turn out to be as much of a joke now as it was back then. I was the only person I knew who got the grant who actually needed it. Everyone one else was the son or daughter of wealthy farmers and other self employed business people who could twist their books to say whatever was necessary. Indeed while I was working three jobs to keep a roof over my head my friends were spending their grants in the local pub safe in the knowledge that Daddy and Mummy were paying the rent and then some.

Despite constant part-time work I also left college with loans to pay back which in fact resulted in me being refused a mortgage a couple of years later. This is not meant to be a sob story but simply to point out that achieving a college education is not as easy as some would think and that if we want to encourage those from backgrounds where third level education is the exception rather than the rule placing further barriers in front of them is not the answer. Bear in mind that ultimately the country benefits substantially from the graduates it creates with what in fact is quite a small frontloaded investment. The taxes alone paid by grads over their forty years of working life more than compensate for that investment and of course the services provided to the community by many grads are unquantifiable.

[DaveM]

Yep!

The Vintners Association will have something to say about this, don't you worry!

More like whatever body represents off-licence owners. I'd say shares in Dutch Gold and Devil's Bit took hammering after this story broke!

[Aindriu]

Exactly. As they do in Germany.

If the students do well (i.e. aren't complete wasters) they get something like a 20% deduction on their repayment. Paying back early also has incentives.

Re: the 6 year thing..... If I go abroad for 6 years with an overdraft then when I come home the money is mine?

Have a hard time believing that.

Shane.

You won't have an account to come back to. Lenders only have 6 years to instigate recovery proceedings & be successful in winning. If they don't it gets timed out as end of process. You cannot be pursued forever for debt - fact!

[Big Bobo]

I don't think anyone would object to big earners in this country pulling their weight more in terms of paying for state subsidised services.

It's a disgrace really that people who earn over 200,000 or even a 100,000 a year should get free fees for their children in university, get child support payments, and plenty more supports from the government.

It's time university fees were introduced for those who can afford them.

Well they are actually not free fees, they come from the progressive taxation system. Increase the income tax on the rich if you really want. What you are suggesting is double taxation. All education should be paid for out of progressive taxation.

The fact is only a very small proportion of students come from rich families earning over €200,000. It would cost more to means test people than what would be collected in additional fees. The government is flying a kite to find out the reactions of people nationally. Their intention and goal is the gradual re-introduction of fees for everyone. To do this they must divide public opinion by claiming this is about stopping the rich kids getting a free ride. People like you go along with this in naivity. Just like with the pay talks and how IBEC tried to turn private sector workers against public sector workers to gain the upper hand, the gvt is doing the same regarding the pushing through of fees by dividing students on income lines.

[lostexpectation]

so how much does administration cost?

[pino]

Published: 6 October, 2008
Sinn Féin Education Spokesperson Senator Pearse Doherty has today slammed the government for its intention to substantially increase third level registration fees. The Donegal Senator has described the cabinet’s decision as “an underhand effort to reintroduce third level fees via the back door.”

The Donegal Senator said:

“Those on low and middle incomes are already struggling to meet increased food and fuel prices. The additional costs of putting a young person through third level are already challenging for ordinary families yet in the current economic climate getting young people into college is now more than ever critical for the states economic viability. We need an educated and skilled workforce, that’s the bottom line.

“Ireland’s educational expenditure is one of the lowest in Europe – it is below OECD average as a percentage of GDP. Sinn Féin has long argued for investment in education should be based on a percentage of 6 per cent of GDP. Access to education is a right not a privilege.

“The abolition of fees in the mid 1990s was a progressive move, but has been fundamentally undermined by successive Fianna Fáil led governments who have failed to invest the economic boom into the country’s future. Now as we now face into fiscal uncertainty the government’s cash cow approach to the public purse over the last ten years is becoming acutely evident.

“With third level registration fees costing up to €980 and a lack of student supports such as childcare and accommodation supplements students and their families already shoulder a considerable financial burden. Mature students have in most instances to pay full fees when they seek to up or re-skill.

“Education is the cornerstone of this country’s economic future. We face uncertain times and traditional employment sectors such as manufacturing and construction are in steady decline. Government regularly talks up the need for a knowledge economy but in real terms has never seriously invested in nor planned for it. This needs to change however government’s latest decision on registration fees does not indicate it is ready to make such a leap.”

[SPN]

Senator Doherty should maybe come down to Waterford any night of the week, and tell us where the "poor students" are able to find their hefty contributions towards the purchase and running costs of the Bentleys, Porsches, BMWs and Range Rovers of the local vintners!

[FutureTaoiseach]

We need to remove incentives for exploitation of the student-visa system by illegal immigrants. At least 100,000 Chinese illegals are believe to be in this country through this system. This is one among many reasons we need to bring back Third Level tuition fees. Labour are flogging a dead horse in trying to retain the status-quo, which is similar to the status-quo-ante in that registration-fees have doubled since the tuition-fees were abolished. At the same time, the whopping tuition-fees the non-EU students have to pay encourages universities to bring in more, who then largely fail to register as required with the GNIB. The govt's refusal to introduce a compulsory register of educational-institutions using the system suggests at best they are turning a blind eye and at worst they are colluding with fatcats to bring in slave labour. Which is it?