The death of science by 3rd level education

[riven]

In Ireland for third level there are two main options: university or institute of technology (IT). My charge is that the IT have failed their orginal remit.

That remit was to provide for technological based education meeting the needs of our trades people and technological industries such as engineering and IT for example.

The reason why I believe they have failed this remit is IT no longer have their main focus lieing in technological feeds. Many IT have schools in Business that far exceed engineering and IT together.

In essence this has left a void, a lack of a high profile MITish technological institution for school leavers. Any thoughts

[mairteenpak]

The Dons and the Students want the prestige of a University

[HP]

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Many IT have schools in Business that far exceed engineering and IT together.

In essence this has left a void, a lack of a high profile MITish technological institution for school leavers. Any thoughts

Sadly another side effect of recent changes to education and economic policy. No-one wants to do science, IT or maths. Engineering is holding up ok actually but its science and IT that should really be of concern.

I don't hold up much hope for the business degrees bringing us through the coming storm.

[JCSkinner]

Ireland has too many sub-standard universities as it is.
It's time that Galway, Maynooth and DCU were downgraded as befits their actual status.
Certainly, joke campaigns like the 'University for Waterford' nonsense need to be ignored.

[HP]

The Dons and the Students want the prestige of a University

No. They want the "marketability" of a University. Wealthy foreign students don't understand the concept of an IT and are therefore understandably reluctant to fork out 11k p.a fees on such an unknown. And if the IT's don't get their hands on those fees they have to rely on the extremely inadequate contribution of the govt.

It costs a lot more to provide the labs and equipment necessary for a science or technical degree than is needed for a business degree - hence the large numbers studying business.

[Oppenheimer]

There is no profession as a "Scientist" in the private sector in this country. There is ill-definition of what can be done with a science degree career-wise. Until Universities, ITs, or whoever have an interest in science education demonstrate the link between Science and reasonable career expectations Science will continue to suffer.

I noticed someone posted that Engineering is holding up reasonably well. This currently skewed by the recent rush to civil engineering. Engineering is a number of different professions, not one so an examination at a more granular level will reveal that Engineering, is in fact, not holding up well.

[geraghd]

Ireland has too many sub-standard universities as it is.
It's time that Galway, Maynooth and DCU were downgraded as befits their actual status.
Certainly, joke campaigns like the 'University for Waterford' nonsense need to be ignored.

Well surely Galway should stay as that is one of the only 4 (I think) universities that make it in the top 400 in the world according to the University rankings. I don't think any of the current Universities should be downgraded, although the government should target a cohort of these universities for special funding, and yes, we don't need another university in Waterford or Dublin. We spread education funding too thinly as it is, and ITs serve an important function in the education sector.

[Oppenheimer]

It costs a lot more to provide the labs and equipment necessary for a science or technical degree than is needed for a business degree - hence the large numbers studying business.

What? The costs of the labs are not passed on to students there is no link between the costs of labs and equipment and student's making decisions to study business or science. Prospective students make decisions based on what they expect at the end of the degree and it is easier, due to the level of information relating what one can do with a business degree professionally, to select a route that student's can clearly equate with career prospects.

[stringjack]

What? The costs of the labs are not passed on to students there is no link between the costs of labs and equipment and student's making decisions to study business or science. Prospective students make decisions based on what they expect at the end of the degree and it is easier, due to the level of information relating what one can do with a business degree professionally, to select a route that student's can clearly equate with career prospects.

There's a lower marginal cost to adding additional places to a business programme; it's cheaper to increase supply; increased supply lowers the points 'cost' of the degree, putting it into the price range of more and more students.

[JCSkinner]

Ireland has too many sub-standard universities as it is.
It's time that Galway, Maynooth and DCU were downgraded as befits their actual status.
Certainly, joke campaigns like the 'University for Waterford' nonsense need to be ignored.

Well surely Galway should stay as that is one of the only 4 (I think) universities that make it in the top 400 in the world according to the University rankings. I don't think any of the current Universities should be downgraded, although the government should target a cohort of these universities for special funding, and yes, we don't need another university in Waterford or Dublin. We spread education funding too thinly as it is, and ITs serve an important function in the education sector.

We have an island population of 6 million. We should structure our educational institutions to mirror that fact. We have the potential to create at most one world class university and two or three mediocre ones. Currently we have three mediocre ones and a raft of genuinely forgettable, poor ones.
Limerick and DCU were supposed to be scientifically troped universities. What happened? Trinity and Queens still seem to lead the way in scientific breakthroughs on this island.