Olympic Boxers and Science Education

[wombat]

I thought that would get your attention.
The amateur boxing association have a problem in that they lose their best prospects to the pro game - Andy Lee being the prime example. They try to overcome this by basically paying boxers to stay amateur and pampering their best prospects - I know its a contradiction, but let me continue.
We have a problem in attracting our brightest students to maths & science. My suggestion is that we identify kids who show an aptitude for maths & science at Junior cert. level and offer them scholarships to study maths, physics and chemistry at 3rd level. The kids would be identified by their teachers and assessed by a panel of scientists who would recommend that they get extra tuition during their transition year, and provided that their Leaving cert results are high enough, they would be paid a minimum wage to study maths., physics or chemistry at the university of their choice. I would restrict it to these core subjects as engineering & IT are applied sciences and we need to study the basic sciences to progress. I am talking about really bright kids, the elite, not the very good. If we can develop athletic talent, why not a similar approach to mathematical talent.

[Vega1447]

I thought that would get your attention.
The amateur boxing association have a problem in that they lose their best prospects to the pro game - Andy Lee being the prime example. They try to overcome this by basically paying boxers to stay amateur and pampering their best prospects - I know its a contradiction, but let me continue.
We have a problem in attracting our brightest students to maths & science. My suggestion is that we identify kids who show an aptitude for maths & science at Junior cert. level and offer them scholarships to study maths, physics and chemistry at 3rd level. The kids would be identified by their teachers and assessed by a panel of scientists who would recommend that they get extra tuition during their transition year, and provided that their Leaving cert results are high enough, they would be paid a minimum wage to study maths., physics or chemistry at the university of their choice. I would restrict it to these core subjects as engineering & IT are applied sciences and we need to study the basic sciences to progress. I am talking about really bright kids, the elite, not the very good. If we can develop athletic talent, why not a similar approach to mathematical talent.

Good idea.
I would avoid the word "elite" as it has negative connotations (even on this forum).
Why not encourage "very good" kids to do Maths/Science?

Only negative re your proposal; it doesn't solve the problem of not enough qualified Maths & Science (esp Physics) teachers.

Like so many of the problems we have; easily solved - just takes political will.....

[rockofcashel]

What has the comparison with the boxers got to do with your opening post...

You cannot "pay" an athlete to stay amatuer.. as soon as they are paid, they become professionals

There is merit in identifying certain students who have particular aptitudes in certain subjects, and nurturing them. However, you then create elites. This was done in Communist countries, and to a certain extent in non Communist countries such as Ireland. Charles Haughey for example benefitted from Third level education as a result of a scholarship from primary school.

The main problem with such a scheme, is to dilute the overall roundness of a childs education by directing or streaming him or her towards one particular subject in which they have a particular aptitude. Whether this is desirable or not is another matter

[wombat]

I would avoid the word "elite" as it has negative connotations (even on this forum).
Why not encourage "very good" kids to do Maths/Science?

Only negative re your proposal; it doesn't solve the problem of not enough qualified Maths & Science (esp Physics) teachers.

Like so many of the problems we have; easily solved - just takes political will.....

My hope would be that a percentage of these students would have an aptitude for teaching - I don't see it as a quick fix, looking at the mechanics of doing the Leaving, graduating from college, maybe a postgrad - say 10 years before results start to show. Regarding "elite" - its interesting that we can use it to describe sportsmen but not the highly intelligent. My idea is to concentrate on the super gifted rather than the very good - segregate them so they can work at a higher level - maybe I can get Brian Hayes interested?

[Vega1447]

I would avoid the word "elite" as it has negative connotations (even on this forum).
Why not encourage "very good" kids to do Maths/Science?

Only negative re your proposal; it doesn't solve the problem of not enough qualified Maths & Science (esp Physics) teachers.

Like so many of the problems we have; easily solved - just takes political will.....

My hope would be that a percentage of these students would have an aptitude for teaching - I don't see it as a quick fix, looking at the mechanics of doing the Leaving, graduating from college, maybe a postgrad - say 10 years before results start to show. Regarding "elite" - its interesting that we can use it to describe sportsmen but not the highly intelligent. My idea is to concentrate on the super gifted rather than the very good - segregate them so they can work at a higher level - maybe I can get Brian Hayes interested?

My objection then is that we need *lots* more qualified maths and science teachers - and also lots more kids to gain 3rd level quals in maths & science.

So I would suggest that your proposal be extended to bright kids and not limited to the top few percent.

Bottom line, a good idea.

[diddleydoo]

Not a bad idea.

I find the word "Elite" to be dangerous as there is automatically a lot of resentment associated with it.

There's nothing wrong with creating exceptional examples of anything, be they boxers, scientists or glassblowers.

The problem people have with this kind of thing is that it is observed to be a closed circle with only people from a priviliged background able to benefit from the system. Once you generate this kind of self-feeding cycle, it no longer serves its purpose. The only way to combat this is, as previously mentioned, have more better qualified science teachers.

Unfortunately, I don't see this happening soon....

Shane.

[Geekzilla]

I thought that would get your attention.

Darn - I thought it would be about dementia pugilistica!

[Oppenheimer]

I thought that would get your attention.

Darn - I thought it would be about dementia pugilistica!

Well, its another way to say "I am the Greatest!!"

[CelticAtheist]

I like it.

[Evestown]

Not a bad idea but isn't it the function of Career Guidance teachers - or whatever they are called these days to guide children to play to their strengths.

I hope that Career Guidance has improved since I was at school but I suspect it hasn't.