Just heard on RTE news that the VEC and University sector are not exempt from the announced cuts. Now, what does that say for "the knowledge economy". While im sure every sector can claim exeptional status, it doesnt make an ounce of sense. A question to FF-ers? Why are they so against knowledge? Why are they against universities? They hamstring them by not allowing fees, and now cut them back. Madness.
the dumbing down of the nation
So its a 8% cut in reality : Now, Im sure some people will come and say "the univerity presidents pay is too high". Maybe, but the pay for postdocs and junior staff isnt. I would love a FFer to come on here and tell us which departments should be closed, or which reserach initiatives parked? Or why they dont have the b@lls to save hundreds of millions by reintroducing fees. FF - the party of stupidity.Originally Posted by politicsisrotten
Perhaps some of the cuts may be absorbed by reducing the top levels of pay.
http://www.ifut.ie/wordpress/2008/06/12 ... greements/
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Mogroth, you should really have read my post...you walked into it.Perhaps some of the cuts may be absorbed by reducing the top levels of pay.
http://www.ifut.ie/wordpress/2008/06/12 ... greements/
Lets say we cut the univeristy presidents pay to the top of the professors level and all the other secret (Note - thats UCD, not the univeristy sector) ones too. Well, thats maybe 70-100k per person and four or five per university. Thats not going to do it.
Take the Smurfit School - they have c75 academics, the largest business school in ireland. An 8% pay cut there is , crudely, 6 less academics. Or take the school of biochemistry and immunology in TCD, one of the worlds leading reserch centres - they have 27 academic staff and a 8% cut ( 3% requires 8% to take account of built in pay inflation). Thats a cut of 4 staff. So, which ones?
Blucey, in fact I walked out of it! I too used to work in the, so called, knowledge economy until I realised that our University sector neither sought nor promoted the ability to create knowledge. Mostly they just seek to emulate Ivy League type institutes, with very little input to the Irish Economy.Mogroth, you should really have read my post...you walked into it.Perhaps some of the cuts may be absorbed by reducing the top levels of pay.
http://www.ifut.ie/wordpress/2008/06/12 ... greements/
Lets say we cut the univeristy presidents pay to the top of the professors level and all the other secret (Note - thats UCD, not the univeristy sector) ones too. Well, thats maybe 70-100k per person and four or five per university. Thats not going to do it.
Take the Smurfit School - they have c75 academics, the largest business school in ireland. An 8% pay cut there is , crudely, 6 less academics. Or take the school of biochemistry and immunology in TCD, one of the worlds leading reserch centres - they have 27 academic staff and a 8% cut ( 3% requires 8% to take account of built in pay inflation). Thats a cut of 4 staff. So, which ones?
Any way, if they are supposed to represent the most intelligent members of our society, then surely they can use their formidable talents to absorb the 8% cuts that have been mentioned.
I also note that you did not mention administration. University administration makes the HSE look good!
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Irish univeristies have about half the admin levels as scottish or english. So, its not that...Blucey, in fact I walked out of it! I too used to work in the, so called, knowledge economy until I realised that our University sector neither sought nor promoted the ability to create knowledge. Mostly they just seek to emulate Ivy League type institutes, with very little input to the Irish Economy.Mogroth, you should really have read my post...you walked into it.Perhaps some of the cuts may be absorbed by reducing the top levels of pay.
http://www.ifut.ie/wordpress/2008/06/12 ... greements/
Lets say we cut the univeristy presidents pay to the top of the professors level and all the other secret (Note - thats UCD, not the univeristy sector) ones too. Well, thats maybe 70-100k per person and four or five per university. Thats not going to do it.
Take the Smurfit School - they have c75 academics, the largest business school in ireland. An 8% pay cut there is , crudely, 6 less academics. Or take the school of biochemistry and immunology in TCD, one of the worlds leading reserch centres - they have 27 academic staff and a 8% cut ( 3% requires 8% to take account of built in pay inflation). Thats a cut of 4 staff. So, which ones?
Any way, if they are supposed to represent the most intelligent members of our society, then surely they can use their formidable talents to absorb the 8% cuts that have been mentioned.
I also note that you did not mention administration. University administration makes the HSE look good!
Come on, with your knowledge, you can tell us. Which places where to go?
There is no "maybe" about it.So its a 8% cut in reality : Now, Im sure some people will come and say "the univerity presidents pay is too high". Maybe, but the pay for postdocs and junior staff isnt.
As an over-paid senior academic, I have absolutely no hesitation in acknowledging that salaries for Presidents, Professors and Senior Lecturers in Irish universities are scandalously inflated, and bear no relation whatsover to the supposed international status of these institutions.
'blucey' describes TCD's School of Biochemistry and Immunology as "one of the worlds (sic) leading reserch centres". Oh, really? According to whom? The School's own website informs us that: "During the period 2003-2006, researchers in the School raised over €21m in research funding, authored over 180 research papers and filed 20 patents". If you check out the corresponding statistics for the world's actual leading research centres, you will see that they raise an awful lot more than €7 million per annum in research funding, and file an awful lot more than 7 patents each year, and author an awful lot more than 60 research papers per annum.
In UCD, meanwhile, we read in recent days of one Professor with a salary 'package' worth a whopping €406,000 last year. Just ten senior UCD academics earned a combined total of almost €2,500,000! The Presidents, meanwhile, earn an average of about €310,000 + very generous expenses (including in several cases, free luxury on-campus housing).
While this scam is going on, tens of thousands of mature students work overtime and forego some basic comforts in order to pay exorbitant fees for part-time courses. If we really want to build a credible knowledge-based economy, the inflated salaries of the pampered few (most of them far from outstanding in their fields of study) should be cut drastically, and some of the saved money invested in extending access to full- and part-time degree courses for thousands of additional students.
Yes, we should continue to invest heavily in university education.
No, we should NOT continue to line the pockets of underworked, underproductive, underachieving senior academics and administrators.
See http://www.tcd.ie/Communications/new...date=2007-11-1There is no "maybe" about it.So its a 8% cut in reality : Now, Im sure some people will come and say "the univerity presidents pay is too high". Maybe, but the pay for postdocs and junior staff isnt.
As an over-paid senior academic, I have absolutely no hesitation in acknowledging that salaries for Presidents, Professors and Senior Lecturers in Irish universities are scandalously inflated, and bear no relation whatsover to the supposed international status of these institutions.
'blucey' describes TCD's School of Biochemistry and Immunology as "one of the worlds (sic) leading reserch centres". Oh, really? According to whom? The School's own website informs us that: "During the period 2003-2006, researchers in the School raised over €21m in research funding, authored over 180 research papers and filed 20 patents". If you check out the corresponding statistics for the world's actual leading research centres, you will see that they raise an awful lot more than €7 per annum in research funding, and file an awful lot more than 7 patents each year, and author an awful lot more than 60 research papers per annum.
In UCD, meanwhile, we read in recent days of one Professor with a salary 'package' worth a whopping €406,000 last year. Just ten senior UCD academics earned a combined total of almost €2,500,000! The Presidents, meanwhile, earn an average of about €310,000 + very generous expenses (including in several cases, free luxury on-campus housing).
While this scam is going on, tens of thousands of mature students work overtime and forego some basic comforts in order to pay exorbitant fees for part-time courses. If we really want to build a credible knowledge-based economy, the inflated salaries of the pampered few (most of them far from outstanding in their fields of study) should be cut drastically, and some of the saved money invested in extending access to full- and part-time degree courses for thousands of additional students.
Yes, we should continue to invest heavily in university education.
No, we should NOT continue to line the pockets of underworked, underproductive, underachieving senior academics and administrators.
They know what to do; they just don't know how to get re-elected afterwards.
But seriously, isnt there a conflict in this scenario. If fees are introduced, many thousands will be unable to afford to attend. Great news for those who can afford it; more spaces, less students, better puil teacher ratio and so on.
But what about all the ones who could not afford to go?
Unemployment, emigration maybe, low paid work, bitter resentment and so on.
I would have thought the emphasis should be on maintaing numbers at University. Its a tricky one and need innovative thinking but simply charging all who attend seems like trying to crack a nut with a sledgehammer.
Bazinga!
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