Hijab or no hijab - that is the question

[newswire]

What do people think about the article on the front of todays (19th May 08) Irish Times?

Basically the Principal of one of the largest schools has called for guidelines on the wearing of hijabs in schools.

The DES have already refused to issue guidance on this.

We had an interesting debate at work at break about just this....and I was surprised about the broad spectrum of opinion on it. Some very much against it to moderate to completely against uniforms altogether.

It is alleged that schools are already attempting to be incredibly selective in their enrolement of students......and I have heard some serious horror stories from colleagues.

So do people think we should allow the wearing of these religious articles of clothing - should schools design one in partnership with the parents, or should it be striclty set uniform.

I would like to also point out that there are still schools who have non-catholic students which has staff who wear dog-collars and habits.

[White Horse]

I would like to also point out that there are still schools who have non-catholic students which has staff who wear dog-collars and habits.

I object to your deliberately insulting usage of the term "dog collar". I presume you are referring to clerical collars.

As for Muslim headwear for girls, I suggest individual schools agree a policy with parents for modest head scarves that do not isolate the muslim children but do meet their religious requirements.

[Rahood]

A link to the article usally helps

Just make the hijab part of the official school uniform with the crest or colours incorporated into it, that way everybody is happy.

[FutureTaoiseach]

The burqa should most certainly be banned.

[FrankSpeaks]

I can just about live with the headscarf (that is assuming - she is not being forced to wear it) but I think the burka should be banned in our country.

[JCSkinner]

Only permissable in Muslim schools, I would suggest. There is no place for this religiosity in state schools or schools nominally of other religious ethos.

[The OD]

I can just about live with the headscarf (that is assuming - she is not being forced to wear it) but I think the burka should be banned in our country.

Whilst I can understand your objections to something like the Burqa, I think we really should look at this from a more neutral viewpoint. Yes, there are many women in Islam who are treated badly, especially in places like Saudi Arabia and under the Taliban in Afghanistan, yes one could point to mysoginistic attitudes amongst some Muslims, yes some Muslims do want an implentation of some form of Sharia law in Western countries, but when you get behind the scaremongering and the tabloid headlines, surprisingly enough, you'll find real, down to earth normal people with ideas and customs, whilst being different to our own, arent all that removed.

I know at least one Muslim lady who is single, has a very liberal family (even by Irish 'Christian' standards), yet she chooses, of her own free will to wear her Hijab. Not every single woman in Islam is a victim, irrespective of what some sections of the media and political spectrum would have you believe. If someone willingly wants to wear their headscarf, I wouldnt have a problem, be it in School, University or even in the Oireachtas, if such a thing is in any way close (no reason why it wouldnt be).

Personally, I find the notion of wearing the headscarf to be bizarre, but I am sure the western/Irish custom of imbibing poison regularly to lubricate social settins equally bizarre. Many Islamic states are oppressive to the Non-Islamic and whilst that could be argued to be wrong, it doesnt follow we should be the same.

What this comes down to is freedom of choice - I dont have a problem with crosses in Schools, hospitals etc, I dont have any particular faith in religion, at best I suppose I am agnostic, but so long as someone isnt trying to shove their beliefs down my throat, no reason why I can see why we should prevent these people expressing their faith. As to questions of some being 'forced' to wear the Hijab, well, we are discussing school kids here - I imagine they are also 'forced' to go to bed early, 'forced' to eat brocolli and cauliflower, 'forced' to stay within their are and so on. Its tough being a kid without being used as an arguing point.

As to the Departments attitude to this, very disappointing.

[Aindriu]

Only permissable in Muslim schools, I would suggest. There is no place for this religiosity in state schools or schools nominally of other religious ethos.

I agree. Mainstream education should be secular - as it is in France.

[KingKane]

Only permissable in Muslim schools, I would suggest. There is no place for this religiosity in state schools or schools nominally of other religious ethos.

I agree. Mainstream education should be secular - as it is in France.

Depends on the provider of education, most schools are religious run in Ireland. I personally don't have that much of a problem with religious imagery worn by kids in school, provided it is the choice of the child and not a rule enforced by the school. The hijab is about a form of modesty and I think simply a more extreme version of say making sure skirts are a certain length. Schools have uniforms for pragmatic reasons and I would generally be supportive of them.

[newswire]

White Horse wrote: I object to your deliberately insulting usage of the term "dog collar". I presume you are referring to clerical collars.

Ah WTF! I have a number of friends who are priests who refer to it as such, and I have heard it used in common discourse and not meant in an offensive manner.

In relation to more intelligent debate...

I wouldn't be too keen on taking social lessons from France to be honest. I think a more partnership approach will be more beneficial to the school community. I know few parents who would object either.