Peter Sutherland on need for support of universities

[patslatt]

Peter Sutherland's article in today's Irish Times "Universities need stronger support" argues that universities deserve more support given their critical role in laying the foundations of the knowledge society and economy. He points out that government spending per student has dropped sharply over the years,with the result that Irish university facilities are becoming inferior to those of Scotland and Wales. This won't go unnoticed by the best students who will seek their education abroad. Proposals for restoration of university fees needs to be debated by the political parties,he says.

In my opinion,universities will have to crash and burn before the Irish wake up to the fact that free university education will ultimately devalue the worth of Irish degrees to the point that most serious third level student will go abroad for their education. As for the argument that fees will deter participation by low income families,Ireland could adopt the Australian system of government guaranteed loans and grants,with loans repayable through the tax system after graduation. Grants are means tested.

[Riadach]

Peter Sutherland's article in today's Irish Times "Universities need stronger support" argues that universities deserve more support given their critical role in laying the foundations of the knowledge society and economy. He points out that government spending per student has dropped sharply over the years,with the result that Irish university facilities are becoming inferior to those of Scotland and Wales. This won't go unnoticed by the best students who will seek their education abroad. Proposals for restoration of university fees needs to be debated by the political parties,he says.

In my opinion,uiniversities will have to crash and burn before the Irish wake up to the fact that free university education will ultimately devalue the worth of Irish degrees to the point that most serious third level student will go abroad for their education.

Somebody paid for theirs and got burnt.

[ManOfReason]

Trinity should return to being a private institution and slash their numbers of students in half.

Only then the government might be embarrassed into admitting that we have been valuing quantity over quality for way too long. If we want to really increase the number of Irish students entering Ph.D programs then we have to start with improving the educational experience of undergraduates in this country.

If we just want to provide large armies of graduates to work in call centres then the government are on the right track.

[Sidewinder]

UCD was nothing but a degree mill when I was there 15 years ago. I doubt matters have improved since. Outside Trinity, Queens, and some of the tech courses in UL, Irish degrees are not very highly thought of internationally.

[seabhcan]

If we want to really increase the number of Irish students entering Ph.D programs then we have to start with improving the educational experience of undergraduates in this country.

Do we need more PhDs? Mine didn't greatly improve my employability, and I did it in a technical subject.

I earn about half as much now as a classmate who went straight to employment after undergrad.

[ManOfReason]

If we want to really increase the number of Irish students entering Ph.D programs then we have to start with improving the educational experience of undergraduates in this country.

Do we need more PhDs? Mine didn't greatly improve my employability, and I did it in a technical subject.

I earn about half as much now as a classmate who went straight to employment after undergrad.

I see your point, Ph.Ds are best pursued for the love of research/academia as the financial rewards rarely justify the effort. It is however the government's supposed policy to make Ireland a leader in 'Fourth Level' education. To make it easier for the IDA to bring high tech companies to Ireland, rather then for the benefit of the actual graduates, I suspect.

[seabhcan]

There needs to be improvement in project funding in 'fourth level', and better job secuity. Researchers live project to project and few are ever permanent.

In my last job I was in a group of about 30 researchers. The only permanent staff were the secretaries and IT guys, and the head of the group. All the scientists were on 3 year contracts.

I left, and tried to set up my own research project. Getting the government funding was the easy part. The hard part was getting the university IP dept to agree to the project. They spent 4 months without making a decision until i threw in the towel and walked away.

I wouldn't bother trying "fourth level" again.

[R Paul]

Universities need stronger support? Stuff and nonsense - look where there are located, it is all prime real estate. Trinity, for example, could flog their pile of bricks for a pretty penny. With the resulting proceeds, they could buy half of Cavan for their new campus, provide world-class research facilities to their researchers and still have more money left over than they'd know what to do with. Will that happen? No, not a chance - far better to sit there moaning about how underfunded they are...

[patslatt]

Universities need stronger support? Stuff and nonsense - look where there are located, it is all prime real estate. Trinity, for example, could flog their pile of bricks for a pretty penny. With the resulting proceeds, they could buy half of Cavan for their new campus, provide world-class research facilities to their researchers and still have more money left over than they'd know what to do with. Will that happen? No, not a chance - far better to sit there moaning about how underfunded they are...

The city centre location improves Trinity's accessibility to students from all over Dublin.As well, the city centre amenities and cultural life attract students from Ireland and abroad,providing an urban experience,a big advantage over universities located in provincial cities. For example, Yale and Princeton may rank near the top in global university rankings,but New Haven,Connecitut,an economically depressed city, and Princeton,New Jersey offer no contest to Dublin.

Dublin's social scene for young people would be diminished by Trinity's departure.

As for land prices,they have plunged in the past two years.

[patslatt]

....