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  1. #21
    twokidsmanybruises twokidsmanybruises is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prester Jim View Post
    Just looked it up there, why is it a problem? Is the bologna process maku g us not fail student? Is this common to all unis involved?
    The Bologna Process was an is a very good idea; it allows for standardisation of degree courses throughout participating countries, which means theoretically a 2:1 BA from an Irish university is equal to a 2:1 degree from a Polish university. It also makes transferring between universities for a semester an easy matter, as all courses are modularised, with each module worth a set amount of credits. So far so good.

    The trouble starts with another good intention; final marks are not based only on final exams, but also on attendance, student participation in class and other forms of continual assessment. Students are also allowed two retakes of all exams or assessment if they fail or are absent. Gone are the days where you could skip all lectures and tutorials as long as you do well at end-of-year exams and papers/assignments. Again, all sound's good.

    The result however, is often more handholding of students work which does not promote individual thought and puts models rather than critical thinking at the forefront when it comes to exams or term essays. Good students will always do well, but I often feel that the focus on continuous assessment fosters average performance rather than individual excellence.

    Adding to this that official state-funded "free" third level education brings less money per head into the university, so that the university has to put quantity over quality when it comes to student numbers, the result is that the cut-off between pass and fail is lower than it used to be. A first is still a first, but a pass or low honour is not comparable to the same grade twenty years ago. I'd go so far to say that, in the humanities at least, a masters is barely the level of a bachelors from the days before Bologna standardisation.

    That said, I'll make it clear that I'm basing this only on universities I've had a direct contact with, based mainly in Poland or Ireland.
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  2. #22
    Ratio Et Fides Ratio Et Fides is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    The reason why there is a lack of what you're calling "viewpoint diversity" in universities is because education inevitably leads to less viewpoint diversity as bad theories are discarded and better theories are refined.

    The entire point of education is to provide people with the skills they need to assess the plausibility of different viewpoints and discard those that are less reasonable. You should be less worried about lack of diversity among the highly educated and more worried about why your own viewpoints are so far beyond the general consensus.

    Universities don't contain many social conservatives for the same reason they don't contain many climate change-denying climatologists or evolution-denying biologists.
    You would be surprised- people though tend to keep views to themselves for professional reasons. Most of the actual learning in University happens outside of "official" things- people will run groups for serious students where real debate and discussion can take place. Personally I wouldn't want to be the hot house that is Western academia- I married very soon after my last exam, however their are tougher people than me out there. Actual social conservatives as opposed to the Milo fan boys you find on here can be incredibly interesting people.
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  3. #23
    Mercurial Mercurial is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by AyaanMyHero View Post
    No expert on this quality issue. Sounds pretty bad. But in general reducing quality of ones output is the surest way to get zero revenue in the long term. My point is that, concerning as it is to pass a failing student, there will possibly be some self rectification effect within 10 years i.e. business will reject the students as employees for quality reasons, word gets out that the university sucks and the pass policy changes.

    However, you triggered a point that is relevant to the thread. If, as a journalism student, you write an essay that proposes a view and you do not consider, in that essay, alternative or conflicting arguments, then that essay should get poor marks. If this is not happening, then it is relevant to this thread.
    It's true (in my experience anyway) that universities don't like to fail students, but usually what happens is that such students will barely scrape by with a pass and most people will be able to figure out what that says about their performance.
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  4. #24
    Mercurial Mercurial is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by twokidsmanybruises View Post
    Good students will always do well, but I often feel that the focus on continuous assessment fosters average performance rather than individual excellence.
    That's an odd attitude to have - end of term exams are an extremely blunt instrument at the best of times, and don't suit some students at all. The best approach seems to be to provide a mixture of assessment methods that (ideally) strikes a balance between matching the different aptitudes of students while also pushing them a little bit outside of their comfort zones.
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  5. #25
    Volatire Volatire is offline
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    Sadly, our best "universities" are degenerating into sixth-rate liberal arts colleges. They will soon be staffed entirely by Marxists bullsh´tting each other for a living.

    If hard science and genuinely free academic thought survive in Ireland it will be through Marxist-free technical universities.
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  6. #26
    AyaanMyHero AyaanMyHero is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by twokidsmanybruises View Post
    The Bologna Process was an is a very good idea; it allows for standardisation of degree courses throughout participating countries, which means theoretically a 2:1 BA from an Irish university is equal to a 2:1 degree from a Polish university. It also makes transferring between universities for a semester an easy matter, as all courses are modularised, with each module worth a set amount of credits. So far so good.

    The trouble starts with another good intention; final marks are not based only on final exams, but also on attendance, student participation in class and other forms of continual assessment. Students are also allowed two retakes of all exams or assessment if they fail or are absent. Gone are the days where you could skip all lectures and tutorials as long as you do well at end-of-year exams and papers/assignments. Again, all sound's good.

    The result however, is often more handholding of students work which does not promote individual thought and puts models rather than critical thinking at the forefront when it comes to exams or term essays. Good students will always do well, but I often feel that the focus on continuous assessment fosters average performance rather than individual excellence.

    Adding to this that official state-funded "free" third level education brings less money per head into the university, so that the university has to put quantity over quality when it comes to student numbers, the result is that the cut-off between pass and fail is lower than it used to be. A first is still a first, but a pass or low honour is not comparable to the same grade twenty years ago. I'd go so far to say that, in the humanities at least, a masters is barely the level of a bachelors from the days before Bologna standardisation.

    That said, I'll make it clear that I'm basing this only on universities I've had a direct contact with, based mainly in Poland or Ireland.
    Are u more experienced with humanities, business or science or are your remarks equally relevant to all fields of study ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  7. #27
    tsarbomb tsarbomb is offline
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    A lot of people hold embarrassing political views in university, but grow out of them when they get jobs and learn how the real world works. From what I understand the radical safe space folk in universities are just a small but minority of tossers. I wouldn't worry.

    When I was in college (early 2000s) there was a good deal of difference of opinion amongst the lecturers and students.
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  8. #28
    Fenian Boy Fenian Boy is offline

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    The left is anti-democratic, anti-freedom of speech, and anti-freedom of press. They are fascists. They have revealed this many times.
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  9. #29
    brigg brigg is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by gleeful View Post
    Basically you are asking whether Universities should have morons as well as normal people?
    Normal people?
    What the hell is normal?
    The most interesting people I've met wouldnt consider themselves 'normal'.
    You must be one of those "sheeple" that so many internet bloggers rant and rave about.
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  10. #30
    CookieMonster CookieMonster is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by The OD View Post
    What if you are an actual Nazi though?
    Like Dengler, who was exposed trying to recruit some of his fellow Nazis to the site?
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