Catholicism Undermined in Catholic Schools

[beardyboy]

[quote=corkman2007]

The sister in law in Cork was horrified when her son aged 12 anounced he did not want to be confirmed. He told her that his teacher said that they did not need to do it.

This is to accomodate the Muslims that are at the school so they do not feel discriminated against.

Bullsh*t. Name the school if it's not.

St Columbas for Boys (not the other one) in Douglas since you ask.

St. Columba's Boys National School? Is that the school you mean? My nephew made his confirmation at that school. You really are talking sh*te.

I don't know what you mean by 'not the other one'? St. Columba's Girls National School? St. Lukes (the Protestant NS)? The Gaelscoil (Gaelscoil An Athar Tadhg Ó Murchú)? Or do you mean the 'new' school in Frankfield?

St. Lukes aside, I've got friends and family with kids at all those schools and they've all made their First Communions/Confirmations with the full participation of the schools.

I don't agree with state funding of religious education but I don't like people planting bullsh*t stories about immigrants being the cause of the 'destruction of Irish culture' either.

Hardly any of the above - I thought my answer would allow you to deduce that.

And it has nothing to do with immigration either per se. If the pupils were protestants, Jews, ore whatever the point still stands.

It has everything to do with the supine nature of some who are afraid to be true to themselves out of fear of others.

[/quote:1473778r]
What are you on about? Kids who go to those schools whose parents are Catholics make their First Communions and Confirmations with the full support and participation of the schools.

Not so now

No kid from any of those schools has ever been told that they can't make their First Communion or Confirmation because it would upset the Muslim pupils which is the claim you made in the first place.

Did not say this was said - do not put words in my mouth

Kids might have been told that they don't have to make their First Communion or Confirmation if they're not Catholics or if their parents don't want them to. Is there something supine or fearful with that?

No - but this is closer to what was said - the child was told that he did not have to receive confirmation if he does not wish it.

[garlandgreen]

Whats the issue here anyway? If the teacher here was asked by one of the pupils if they had to be confirmed was he/she suppose to lie and say yes.

If Beardyboys nephew was told he had to go through this dog & pony show against his will and say things he didn't believe then the message that would be sent to this child was that he should be a liar and hypocrite. He has shown more courage and principal than I did at his age to be honest and kudos to him. Wisdom seems to skip generations in Beardyboys family.

As for for the muslim issue, I'm the last person to defend the adherents of this superstition when they start asking for special privileges however they would have a fair point if their children were told that they had to participate in this Catholic ritual (I am by the way suspicious as to whether this policy was introduced to please muslims or if it's just part of it's another one of Beardyboys "everyones out to get Catholics" rants as the school presumably has children of parents of other minority groups who might simuarily object. ).

As long as the Catholic church retains it role as the de facto default provider of education in this state it is going to have to provide education to the children of non adherents it's faith and therefore deal with these issues.

[beardyboy]

Whats the issue here anyway? If the teacher here was asked by one of the pupils if they had to be confirmed was he/she suppose to lie and say yes.

If Beardyboys nephew was told he had to go through this dog & pony show against his will and say things he didn't believe then the message that would be sent to this child was that he should be a liar and hypocrite. He has shown more courage and principal than I did at his age to be honest and kudos to him. Wisdom seems to skip generations in Beardyboys family.

As for for the muslim issue, I'm the last person to defend the adherents of this superstition when they start asking for special privileges however they would have a fair point if their children were told that they had to participate in this Catholic ritual (I am by the way suspicious as to whether this policy was introduced to please muslims or if it's just part of it's another one of Beardyboys "everyones out to get Catholics" rants as the school presumably has children of parents of other minority groups who might simuarily object. ).

As long as the Catholic church retains it role as the de facto default provider of education in this state it is going to have to provide education to the children of non adherents it's faith and therefore deal with these issues.

Keep changing the scenario to suit your argument.

[garlandgreen]

Whats the issue here anyway? If the teacher here was asked by one of the pupils if they had to be confirmed was he/she suppose to lie and say yes.

If Beardyboys nephew was told he had to go through this dog & pony show against his will and say things he didn't believe then the message that would be sent to this child was that he should be a liar and hypocrite. He has shown more courage and principal than I did at his age to be honest and kudos to him. Wisdom seems to skip generations in Beardyboys family.

As for for the muslim issue, I'm the last person to defend the adherents of this superstition when they start asking for special privileges however they would have a fair point if their children were told that they had to participate in this Catholic ritual (I am by the way suspicious as to whether this policy was introduced to please muslims or if it's just part of it's another one of Beardyboys "everyones out to get Catholics" rants as the school presumably has children of parents of other minority groups who might simuarily object. ).

As long as the Catholic church retains it role as the de facto default provider of education in this state it is going to have to provide education to the children of non adherents it's faith and therefore deal with these issues.

Keep changing the scenario to suit your argument.

I don't need to change the scenario. My argument stands in any context.

[cactus flower]

Beardyboy, this can't be good for you. Reality is complex enough without having to try and find things to worry about. You should be taking better care of yourself.

[beardyboy]

Beardyboy, this can't be good for you. Reality is complex enough without having to try and find things to worry about. You should be taking better care of yourself.

You concern touches me deeply

[beardyboy]

Whats the issue here anyway? If the teacher here was asked by one of the pupils if they had to be confirmed was he/she suppose to lie and say yes.

If Beardyboys nephew was told he had to go through this dog & pony show against his will and say things he didn't believe then the message that would be sent to this child was that he should be a liar and hypocrite. He has shown more courage and principal than I did at his age to be honest and kudos to him. Wisdom seems to skip generations in Beardyboys family.

As for for the muslim issue, I'm the last person to defend the adherents of this superstition when they start asking for special privileges however they would have a fair point if their children were told that they had to participate in this Catholic ritual (I am by the way suspicious as to whether this policy was introduced to please muslims or if it's just part of it's another one of Beardyboys "everyones out to get Catholics" rants as the school presumably has children of parents of other minority groups who might simuarily object. ).

As long as the Catholic church retains it role as the de facto default provider of education in this state it is going to have to provide education to the children of non adherents it's faith and therefore deal with these issues.

Keep changing the scenario to suit your argument.

I don't need to change the scenario. My argument stands in any context.

Not in this

[stringjack]

Kids might have been told that they don't have to make their First Communion or Confirmation if they're not Catholics or if their parents don't want them to. Is there something supine or fearful with that?

No - but this is closer to what was said - the child was told that he did not have to receive confirmation if he does not wish it.

Just to be clear, your objection here is that a teacher, in front of a class, said that it's not obligatory to be confirmed?

(First, that's probably true from a legal viewpoint - children would be entitled to decline to participate in the ceremony, regardless of the opinion of their parents.

Second, it's also true from a Catholic perspective. While authorities differ, it is probably a sin to never be confirmed. However, there would be nothing sinful whatsoever in deciding that one was not ready to be confirmed at any particular time.)

[corkman2007]

What are you on about? Kids who go to those schools whose parents are Catholics make their First Communions and Confirmations with the full support and participation of the schools.

Not so now

They do support the parents and kids who are making their First Communions and Confirmations. The kids have preparation lessons and some of the schools throw parties on the Communion or Confirmation days to which all the participating kids and their families are invited. What more support do you want them to provide? Free stretch limos?

No kid from any of those schools has ever been told that they can't make their First Communion or Confirmation because it would upset the Muslim pupils which is the claim you made in the first place.

Did not say this was said - do not put words in my mouth

You pretty much implied it with your original post and the headline for the thread.

Kids might have been told that they don't have to make their First Communion or Confirmation if they're not Catholics or if their parents don't want them to. Is there something supine or fearful with that?

No - but this is closer to what was said - the child was told that he did not have to receive confirmation if he does not wish it.

What's wrong with that? It's true isn't it? Or would you rather than your nephew was forced to make his confirmation against his wishes?

You also said that he was told this 'to accomodate the Muslims that are at the school so they do not feel discriminated against'. What's your claim here? That the teachers and/or the schools are encouraging children not to participate in Catholic rituals so as not to upset Muslims?

[garlandgreen]

Whats the issue here anyway? If the teacher here was asked by one of the pupils if they had to be confirmed was he/she suppose to lie and say yes.

If Beardyboys nephew was told he had to go through this dog & pony show against his will and say things he didn't believe then the message that would be sent to this child was that he should be a liar and hypocrite. He has shown more courage and principal than I did at his age to be honest and kudos to him. Wisdom seems to skip generations in Beardyboys family.

As for for the muslim issue, I'm the last person to defend the adherents of this superstition when they start asking for special privileges however they would have a fair point if their children were told that they had to participate in this Catholic ritual (I am by the way suspicious as to whether this policy was introduced to please muslims or if it's just part of it's another one of Beardyboys "everyones out to get Catholics" rants as the school presumably has children of parents of other minority groups who might simuarily object. ).

As long as the Catholic church retains it role as the de facto default provider of education in this state it is going to have to provide education to the children of non adherents it's faith and therefore deal with these issues.

Keep changing the scenario to suit your argument.

I don't need to change the scenario. My argument stands in any context.

Not in this

I beg to differ. But I've said everything I have to say on this issue. Give your nephew my kindest regards.