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  1. #21
    Sailor Sailor is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Foil Hat View Post
    Project Maths is more about presenting pretty pie-charts to the media than it is about teaching a high level f mathematical knowledge to those willing and able to learn it. The people who matter won't be fooled.
    I wonder how many with even high grades in Maths could, after one more year of study, tackle the Cambridge first year maths exams:

    http://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/undergrad...ia/List_IA.pdf

    If we want to produce students with a real standard of excellence in maths this is the target!
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  2. #22
    wombat wombat is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
    I wonder how many with even high grades in Maths could, after one more year of study, tackle the Cambridge first year maths exams:

    http://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/undergrad...ia/List_IA.pdf

    If we want to produce students with a real standard of excellence in maths this is the target!
    It would depend on how hard they worked
    Not sure why you picked that as the target, for science or engineering its more application than pure maths that's needed.
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  3. #23
    Sailor Sailor is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    It would depend on how hard they worked
    Not sure why you picked that as the target, for science or engineering its more application than pure maths that's needed.
    My point is that I don't see any great value in getting an extra 10% of students doing higher maths if all they're likely to do is scrape a D grade. It'll give them a few extra points but does nothing to provide high calibre maths graduates. In fact it may have the opposite effect, with more parents moaning that the stand is too high
    And I'll be expecting you answer paper in 2 hours
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  4. #24
    wombat wombat is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
    And I'll be expecting you answer paper in 2 hours
    I had a look, I'm afraid it would be closer to 2 years, with a good teacher
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  5. #25
    Sailor Sailor is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    I had a look, I'm afraid it would be closer to 2 years, with a good teacher
    Likewise
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  6. #26
    wombat wombat is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
    My point is that I don't see any great value in getting an extra 10% of students doing higher maths if all they're likely to do is scrape a D grade.
    I heard someone on radio saying that a lot of kids who took higher maths in previous years would get cold feet before the exam and take the lower level, they're hoping that if more sit the exam, some will get the higher grade.
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  7. #27
    4horsemen 4horsemen is offline
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    The dropping of topics such as complex numbers, and aspects of calculus is unfortunate and moves the level of of First Year engineering to a lower level than our historic equivalence to top international courses. But what we should really be alarmed by the is the decline in literacy and be aware there are influences who want to follow the 'no need for arithmetic since we have calculators' with 'no need for grammar and spelling since we have smart phones'. See
    Stop teaching children how to spell because smartphones can do it for them, says academic in attack on traditional teaching | Mail Online
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  8. #28
    aldiper aldiper is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by patslatt View Post
    In a Newstalk interview,the founder of online Leaving Cert maths tuition service Positive Maths | Online Maths Tutorials Personalised tuition for Junior Cert and Leaving Cert - Ireland said that Project Maths graduates are less well prepared than traditional maths graduates for advanced maths in university. That's because Leaving Cert maths no longer includes difficult aspects of calculus and complex numbers theory.Clearly,university science students need to be exposed to these topics at a young age in secondary school. While the Newstalk presenter pointed out that this is a deficiency in curriculum, presumably Project Maths' emphasis on practical applications of maths leaves less time for advanced theory.

    The founder of Positive Maths made two other criticisms: students' use of calculators deprives them of practice learning maths by manually working through maths problems;and maths can't be taught properly in today's large class sizes of around 30.

    Given that Ireland's economic future heavily depends on moving up the value chain into advanced science and engineering,it is important that these weaknesses in Project Maths be corrected as a matter of urgency.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainwreck View Post
    WTF??

    I had no idea that complex number theory had been dropped. Talk about dumbing down our schools.
    I went to the liberty of finding the Leaving Cert Maths syllabus for 2014 - find it here.


    Quote Originally Posted by LC Higher Level Syllabus 2014
    Section 4.4 Complex Numbers
    See strand 3, section 3.1 – use the Conjugate Root
    Theorem to find the roots of
    polynomials
    – work with complex numbers
    in rectangular and polar form
    to solve quadratic and other
    equations including those in
    the form
    z^n= a, where n ∈ Z and
    z = r (Cos θ + iSin θ)
    – use De Moivre’s Theorem
    – prove De Moivre’s Theorem by
    induction for n ∈ N
    – use applications such as n th
    roots of unity, n ∈ N and identities such as
    Cos 3θ = 4 Cos3θ – 3 Cos θ
    The OP is not clear - perhaps they meant that more difficult aspects of complex numbers have been dropped, but the essentials are there.

    Imaginary numbers occupy a special place in my heart - I always found it fascinating that such ''imaginary' numbers, concocted out of thin air to produce a closed algebraic system, could have any practical use at all. It wasn't until I came across this website, that I truly got them. Finding the answer to questions such as ln(-1), e^i are almost intuitive now that I have a geometric interpretation of complex numbers. This page may be useful to anyone trying to understand how complex numbers can be used to model any periodically varying natural phenomena, such as electrical voltage.

    That is why I support Project Maths - I was a student master of syntax, pushing symbols about a page, mostly correctly, but rarely with any insight into what I was doing. It is only those who can work and reason with mathematics on an intuitive level who will of any practical benefit to society.
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  9. #29
    IbrahaimMohamad IbrahaimMohamad is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4horsemen View Post
    The dropping of topics such as complex numbers, and aspects of calculus is unfortunate and moves the level of of First Year engineering to a lower level than our historic equivalence to top international courses. But what we should really be alarmed by the is the decline in literacy and be aware there are influences who want to follow the 'no need for arithmetic since we have calculators' with 'no need for grammar and spelling since we have smart phones'. See
    Stop teaching children how to spell because smartphones can do it for them, says academic in attack on traditional teaching | Mail Online
    You cant get away from the three Rs: reading, writing and arithmetic

    We are challenged to compete in a World of opportunity, increasingly
    driven by innovation and knowledge.

    The Global Marketplace rewards organizations that find better ways of
    doing things, innovating, and creating new services, products and
    processes.

    Our Education System, Worker Development, Lifelong learning, even
    our Teacher Training, must be aligned to provide workers with the
    skills they need to compete and avail of jobs and markets that are
    there to be won, in a World of competing skills.

    Employers need more workers who can respond flexibly to complex
    problems, communicate effectively, manage information, work in teams,
    innovate, produce new knowledge, and be enterprising.

    One of the greatest stimulus’s, we can provide is investing to reskill
    our people to meet the demands of the employment market.

    Continueing to allocate huge resources to Teaching Catholic Dogma and a Dead Irish Language will damm us to the second or third division in the Global race for investment and Jobs.
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  10. #30
    IbrahaimMohamad IbrahaimMohamad is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by IbrahaimMohamad View Post
    You cant get away from the three Rs: reading, writing and arithmetic

    We are challenged to compete in a World of opportunity, increasingly
    driven by innovation and knowledge.

    The Global Marketplace rewards organizations that find better ways of
    doing things, innovating, and creating new services, products and
    processes.

    Our Education System, Worker Development, Lifelong learning, even
    our Teacher Training, must be aligned to provide workers with the
    skills they need to compete and avail of jobs and markets that are
    there to be won, in a World of competing skills.

    Employers need more workers who can respond flexibly to complex
    problems, communicate effectively, manage information, work in teams,
    innovate, produce new knowledge, and be enterprising.

    One of the greatest stimulus’s, we can provide is investing to reskill
    our people to meet the demands of the employment market.

    Continueing to allocate huge resources to Teaching Catholic Dogma and a Dead Irish Language will damm us to the second or third division in the Global race for investment and Jobs.
    Providing an opportunity to thake the higher level and lower level papers inthe leaving cert would be a huge step forward, by simply scheduling the lower paper on a date of its own.
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