Science education failing the knowledge economy?

[patslatt]

Two key issues must be dealt with to promote the knowledge economy: restoration of university fees and increasing the pay of primary and secondary school science teachers to market levels. Although the government likes to talk about the knowledge economy future that will bring Ireland up the value added chain,it has refused to deal with these two issues.

It prevents universities from charging fees that are necessary to fund modern laboratories. If it was worried about affordable third level access,it could introduce a tuition loans system like Australia's that actually boosts the admissions of students from low income families. Its claims to fund third level science rings hollow, given both the paucity of present grants and the fact that most government funded universities in Europe offer poor quality science education,apart from some elite institutions.

As well,the government has not stood up to teachers' unions on the issue of paying premium salaries to science teachers. The strong market for science professionals has increased their pay to levels beyond the one-size-fits-all pay structure of teachers. Quite unreasonably,the unions expect the government to give all teachers a huge pay increase to make teacher pay attractive to science graduates.

At present, there is a shortage of chemistry and physics teachers and most science courses tend to be in biology.

In The Times today,there is a report on the English government's plan to pay science teachers a bounty of "£5,000 to retrain as physics,chemistry and maths teachers to address a shortage that is threathening the future of British research and business..." See http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 599622.ece

The bounty is a sensible idea but it is more important to pay science teachers their true market worth and stop allowing unions to manipulate science teacher pay for their own selfish bargaining ends.

[Ard-Taoiseach]

One of the things they can do is use the Summer School Improvement Scheme to boost the size and range of science laboratories in secondary schools. A local post-primary is getting a revamped Home EC area, and this sort of thing should happen to Science, too.

A lab technician should be hired to every secondary school in the country. This improves the effectiveness of teaching and frees up time for teachers to concentrate on instruction.

Market the subject better through the use of Bebo, MySpace, lastfm and Facebook etc to spark interest.

Review the Syllabus and increase focus on the problem-solving element of scientific enquiry. In Wyeth, élan, Pfizer etc, they'll be solving lots of problems.

Make it fun with "let's blow it up" experiments mixed in with serious "let's use the tweezer slowly" ones.

[geraghd]

Im not sure increasing salary of a science teacher is going to do very much. Working is science is a pretty crap job at the base level, and the conditions, pay and terms of a teaching job more than match anything industry can offer. I know plenty of people working in science, got good degrees and planning on heading into the profession. And there are plenty of jobs available when you compare to Arts grads.

Definitely increasing funding at primary and especially secondary level education, with proper labs and increased resourcing for hiring a technician or two depending on the size of the school will go a long way.

[rockofcashel]

The knowledge economy ? Will people ever cop themselves on.. knowledge economy my backside

Nothing more than a "cliche" .. political management speak

I'll give you the "real" story in Irish primary schools...

Rosegreen primary school.. The local politicians claiming that class sizes are nearing 20 children or less.. the reality, 44 children divided between infants and senior infants in once classroom

New Inn primary school.. 4 different classes, 3rd-6th, in one room

Cahir Boys primary school ... receiving a capitation grant for 168 pupils of less than 18k per year, while Bertie Ahern spends 25k on make up

I could go on and on..


The very basis of the Irish education system, the primary level, where children learn the basics of literacy and numeracy, woefully, woefully underfunded.. and the first poster is talking about universities and their funding.. Irish people would want to cop themselves on

Nothing annoyed me more during the last election than the lip service and pure bull************************ that was spoken about when education was discussed

And frankly, FG's solutions were just as bad or downright stupid..

A free laptop for every secondary student ?

Kids don't have enough bloody text books in primary school in many places.. what the ************************ good is a free laptop for every student the minute they turn twelve years old?

As I said myself during a debate at the time, the only value that proposal would have had, would be in keeping students quiet on Bebo while the teachers carried on the education of the small few who made it out of primary with the most basic of skills

Next time you hear a politician talk about "The Knowledge Economy", try to resist punching them

[wombat]

A lab technician should be hired to every secondary school in the country. This improves the effectiveness of teaching and frees up time for teachers to concentrate on instruction.

Totally disagree with this. The concentration must be on basic theory which is the responsibility of the teacher. Many of our graduates do not understand the basics of the subjects they have studied, they are very computer literate but often do not understand the basic theory behind a piece of software, and do not recognise that garbage in means garbage out. Too much concentration on labs detracts from time spent on theory. Science is not a form of entertainment, like the latest video game.

[wombat]

The knowledge economy ? Will people ever cop themselves on.. knowledge economy my backside

Nothing more than a "cliche" .. political management speak

....A free laptop for every secondary student ?

Kids don't have enough bloody text books in primary school in many places.. what the ************************ good is a free laptop for every student the minute they turn twelve years old?

As I said myself during a debate at the time, the only value that proposal would have had, would be in keeping students quiet on Bebo while the teachers carried on the education of the small few who made it out of primary with the most basic of skills

Next time you hear a politician talk about "The Knowledge Economy", try to resist punching them

Hate to agree with SF but this idea that teachers must teach every fad that comes along is daft. However, while we must improve primary education, we cannot neglect 3rd level. To be cynical about it, we need a quick fix so that we can gain the time to bring the primary sector up to speed.

[patslatt]

The knowledge economy ? Will people ever cop themselves on.. knowledge economy my backside

Nothing more than a "cliche" .. political management speak

I'll give you the "real" story in Irish primary schools...

Rosegreen primary school.. The local politicians claiming that class sizes are nearing 20 children or less.. the reality, 44 children divided between infants and senior infants in once classroom

New Inn primary school.. 4 different classes, 3rd-6th, in one room

Cahir Boys primary school ... receiving a capitation grant for 168 pupils of less than 18k per year, while Bertie Ahern spends 25k on make up

I could go on and on..


The very basis of the Irish education system, the primary level, where children learn the basics of literacy and numeracy, woefully, woefully underfunded.. and the first poster is talking about universities and their funding.. Irish people would want to cop themselves on

Nothing annoyed me more during the last election than the lip service and pure bull************************ that was spoken about when education was discussed

And frankly, FG's solutions were just as bad or downright stupid..

A free laptop for every secondary student ?

Kids don't have enough bloody text books in primary school in many places.. what the ************************ good is a free laptop for every student the minute they turn twelve years old?

As I said myself during a debate at the time, the only value that proposal would have had, would be in keeping students quiet on Bebo while the teachers carried on the education of the small few who made it out of primary with the most basic of skills

Next time you hear a politician talk about "The Knowledge Economy", try to resist punching them

Not to contradict anything above, but aren't most parents happy with the quality of primary education? If they aren't happy with it, why don't they express their dissatifaction forcefully to politicians,who presumably would package politically attractive primary education policies to win votes? Is there a failure of democracy here? Are the schools you mentioned above mostly in socially deprived areas neglected by politicians?

[patslatt]

Im not sure increasing salary of a science teacher is going to do very much. Working is science is a pretty crap job at the base level, and the conditions, pay and terms of a teaching job more than match anything industry can offer. I know plenty of people working in science, got good degrees and planning on heading into the profession. And there are plenty of jobs available when you compare to Arts grads.

Definitely increasing funding at primary and especially secondary level education, with proper labs and increased resourcing for hiring a technician or two depending on the size of the school will go a long way.

Anecdotal evidence suggests there is a shortage of physics,chemistry and advanced maths teachers and facilities. UK statistics in the The Times article referenced in the opening post documents the same shortage there.

[wombat]

At present, there is a shortage of chemistry and physics teachers and most science courses tend to be in biology.

Its easier to get high marks in biology, which is why its popular. Not sure that paying bonuses is the way to go, not everyone can teach. I could give a training course in several technical areas but I'm not sure I could teach a class of kids.

[ibis]

Im not sure increasing salary of a science teacher is going to do very much. Working is science is a pretty crap job at the base level, and the conditions, pay and terms of a teaching job more than match anything industry can offer. I know plenty of people working in science, got good degrees and planning on heading into the profession. And there are plenty of jobs available when you compare to Arts grads.

To put it another way, science is hard, and the jobs are, as geraghd says, crap at the entry level, which is usually as far ahead as you and your friends can see. Higher up the profession, they're intellectually rewarding, but usually socially declassé and relatively powerless.

You have to be a very particular type of person to aspire to doing science - and if you don't actually aspire to science, you're being sensible if you go for the subjects most likely to give you the points to get into a "good" degree.