Originally Posted by Spirit Of Newgrange

all hollywood blockbusters should be dubbed into irish, with english subtitles

I've no patience with subtitles for Irish I thin they should be there and they should be, as far as possible, literal. English speakers can rearrange words and learn no problem but they won't learn Irish by reading English.

Originally Posted by pippakin

I've no patience with subtitles for Irish I thin they should be there and they should be, as far as possible, literal. English speakers can rearrange words and learn no problem but they won't learn Irish by reading English.

I can't stand dubbed films. Much rather subtitles.
Just stick irish subtitles in rather than having some gob************************e from Connemara/Gweedore dubbing Brendan Gleeson

Originally Posted by pippakin

Are you saying that people would rearrange Irish to fit English in?

You went on your bicycle? How nice! If it was to go to night classes it rather depends how far, how dark and how fit the rider is.

You've stopped making sense to me.

Originally Posted by pippakin

I've no patience with subtitles for Irish I thin they should be there and they should be, as far as possible, literal. English speakers can rearrange words and learn no problem but they won't learn Irish by reading English.

Subtitles are restricted by the space available to them on screen anyway and quite often "unimportant" words are left out. Apart from the obvious reason subtitles have two benefits for the learners.
Firstly they give them an opportunity to match chunks of text in two languages and secondly they expose them to authentic speech that has not been simplified.

Originally Posted by sic transit

Subtitles are restricted by the space available to them on screen anyway and quite often "unimportant" words are left out. Apart from the obvious reason subtitles have two benefits for the learners.
Firstly they give them an opportunity to match chunks of text in two languages and secondly they expose them to authentic speech that has not been simplified.

I'm not against subtitles I prefer them to dubbing which as far as I have seen is always very poor. I would like to see the subtitles on tg4 to be literal translations of the dialogue as far as that's possible. Obviously it couldn't be word for word, subtitles never are, but for those of us who want to learn Irish it would be easier to follow the Irish language.

Originally Posted by statsman

I do hope you get a grown-up discussion going on this. Learning any language as an adult is a worthwhile intellectual exercise. I've learned a couple myself.

Dr Kevin Williams is interesting on this. While quoting the value of learning another
language, he says that some other conditions need to be met if the exercise is to be
intellectually enriching in practice.

First - one needs to learn the language well (grammar, vocabulary, syntax,) so as to have the
ability to experience its verbal and literary characteristics and its inherited literature fully.

Second - the language in question needs to be in use in a sophisticated society, so as to have developed
the usages that allow it to express the complicated and subtle meanings required in such a society.

Obviously, nobody would object to using a few words of Italian in pidgin talk to tell a waiter where
you came from and that you'd like an ice cream. Or to a few pidgin words in any other language either.

Originally Posted by pippakin

I've no patience with subtitles for Irish I thin they should be there and they should be, as far as possible, literal. English speakers can rearrange words and learn no problem but they won't learn Irish by reading English.

Make sure you don't say this in the hearing of any TG4 employees. You'd be lynched.

(it wouldn't matter if you were wrong. The reason you'd be lynched is that you are so obviously right.)

Originally Posted by Lord Muck Savage

I suspect that they’re school teachers who teach the language and hence can’t think outside of the class room. On occasions when I attempt to use Irish on this forum I get similarly put down. It’s really loathsome behaviour on their part.

You're right that the feeling among the general body of teachers has become more negative towards Irish. See
research reports, E.G John Harris). But are you drawing the right conclusion from that? There have been many
statements from teachers over the years that they are up at the sharp end, trying to get young citizens to use
Irish when all the older citizens, i.e. their parents out in the real world, wouldn't dream of becoming Irish-speaking.

The teachers are on a hiding to nowhere, being ordered to alter the country linguistically though the education
system. Naturally they have to try in the classroom since they are under contract to do so. But you can't blame
them for getting cranky if somebody wants to to the 'cúpla focal' on them outside of work hours.

Originally Posted by Fun with Irish

Make sure you don't say this in the hearing of any TG4 employees. You'd be lynched.

(it wouldn't matter if you were wrong. The reason you'd be lynched is that you are so obviously right.)

LOL! I'm accustomed to the knowledge that some have only to see my name...

I agree that to learn Irish properly you should find the best teachers, or any...and do it by the book, but often older people don't want to pass a test. All we want is to be able to take part in a conversation or merely understand what is being said.

Seanfhocail - Proverbs

Is ait an mac an tsaoil - Life is strange
Is maith an scealaí an aimsir - Time is a good storyteller
Giorríonn beirt bóthar - Company shortens the journey
Is iomaí cor sa tsaol - Life has many twists and turns
Is maith an t-anlann an t-ocras - Hunger's the best sauce
An té nach bhfuil láidir, ní fólair dó a bheith glic - The weak man needs to be clever
Nuair a bhíonn an fíon istigh, bíonn an ciall amuigh - There's no sense when wine has been taken
Is fearr cara sa chúirt, ná punt sa sparáin - Better to have a friend in court than money in your wallet.
Ní thagann ciall roimh aois - Can't put an old head on young shoulders.