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  1. #21
    Toman13 Toman13 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulp View Post
    Coderdojo is running in a lot of towns around the country now - is a really excellent initiative

    scratch.ie is a great resource they use
    What's that, pray tell?
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  2. #22
    LTLCHG LTLCHG is offline

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    It is probably just as well off that we have no IT in schools as I could imagine it turning into a Microsoft training course.

    I see little point in teaching how to use a software package that could change completely or become obsolete.
    Kids will learn how to drag and drop on there own time. If Irish kids don't know how to do it, big deal. They will figure it out when they need it.

    We should have computer science and programming at school.
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  3. #23
    myksav myksav is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by seabhcan View Post
    Quite a bit of time is spent in Irish schools teaching languages - and the result is disastrous, we are near the bottom of european lists for that too.

    Just making existing schools teach computers won't help. Existing teachers don't know how to use them either. Blind leading the blind.
    Hah, some are actually anti-computer. One I recall on a course I was on had a lovely introduction for IT. Gave the 'history' of computers which went a bit like this; "The first computers were big machines needing an entire room, then they made them about the size of a desk, then they made them small enough to invade our homes...".
    Her idea of showing someone how to do something on the computer was to push you to one side and speed-type so that you couldn't even see which keystrokes to use. She even did that when she thought you were doing it wrong.
    At least it was DOS 3.1, the Esc button was your friend with her around.
    And that was in an adult education course, gods help the kids she taught computer skills.

    Elsewhere, another part of the problem is that IT is taught like English or Irish, all serious grammar rather than getting kids to play with programming. Play instills the concepts better in the young, that's how youngsters learn everything anyway.
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  4. #24
    Toman13 Toman13 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by LTLCHG View Post
    It is probably just as well off that we have no IT in schools as I could imagine it turning into a Microsoft training course.

    I see little point in teaching how to use a software package that could change completely or become obsolete.
    Kids will learn how to drag and drop on there own time. If Irish kids don't know how to do it, big deal. They will figure it out when they need it.

    We should have computer science and programming at school.
    Exactly. And if we want to further improve our education, all primary schools should be gaelscoils. Gaelscoil students are better at English and Maths as a result.
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  5. #25
    Orbit v2 Orbit v2 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by uriah View Post
    It might be because we don't have computers/IT equipment in our schools, we don't have any kind of technical support available to teachers and there is no on-going training for teachers.

    The whole thing depends on parents' ability and willingness to fundraise, and teachers' willingness to find appropriate training courses to keep themselves up to date and to enable them to keep aging equipment functioning for as long as possible.

    It's quite simple, really.
    Training yes. Equipment no. There is more than enough equipment in schools to teach with.
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  6. #26
    paulp paulp is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toman13 View Post
    What's that, pray tell?

    CoderDojo - Youth Coding Clubs Movement
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  7. #27
    LamportsEdge LamportsEdge is offline
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    I don't see Irish kids being any less computer literate naturally than US or UK kids. We seem to have hacktivists if recent arrests are anything to go by.

    There seems to be no shortage of digital nous in the admittedly small group of Irish teens I know. I suspect this Eurostat survey will be looking in the wrong area.

    Remember video recorders? Many households relied in teens and younger to operate the buggers. They are early and easy adopters.
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  8. #28
    Orbit v2 Orbit v2 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by myksav View Post
    Hah, some are actually anti-computer. One I recall on a course I was on had a lovely introduction for IT. Gave the 'history' of computers which went a bit like this; "The first computers were big machines needing an entire room, then they made them about the size of a desk, then they made them small enough to invade our homes...".
    Her idea of showing someone how to do something on the computer was to push you to one side and speed-type so that you couldn't even see which keystrokes to use. She even did that when she thought you were doing it wrong.
    At least it was DOS 3.1, the Esc button was your friend with her around.
    And that was in an adult education course, gods help the kids she taught computer skills.

    Elsewhere, another part of the problem is that IT is taught like English or Irish, all serious grammar rather than getting kids to play with programming. Play instills the concepts better in the young, that's how youngsters learn everything anyway.
    part of the problem has been the lack of educational software that actually does what you describe above. Scratch looks like a great effort, and it looks like the UK have finally realised the mistake they have been making for the last number of years. With a bit of luck five years after the Brits, we'll realise too.

    I wonder how many people remember what happened with this? I only have a vague recollection of it. But, that article suggests that a serious attempt at this was done in the 1980's. If that had succeeded, then we really would have been a world leader in real IT development.
    Last edited by Orbit v2; 3rd April 2012 at 11:41 AM.
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  9. #29
    Toman13 Toman13 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by LamportsEdge View Post
    I don't see Irish kids being any less computer literate naturally than US or UK kids. We seem to have hacktivists if recent arrests are anything to go by.

    There seems to be no shortage of digital nous in the admittedly small group of Irish teens I know. I suspect this Eurostat survey will be looking in the wrong area.

    Remember video recorders? Many households relied in teens and younger to operate the buggers. They are early and easy adopters.
    Using video recordings and video games(as a random example) is one thing. Knowing how to hack, code or write programs is another.
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  10. #30
    LamportsEdge LamportsEdge is offline
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    Bear in mind that in computer games that world is intensely competitive and kids will go extraordinary lengths to get at 'passes' and fixes that allow them to get ahead of their peers.

    The desire to cheat is the same in some ways as the desire to innovate. I wouldn't assume that kids who play games are wasters- there are whole economies in some of these games. Google and Microsoft aren't doing their software writing or coding in Ireland- they are assembly plants as far as I know and where Google is concerned mostly marketing analysis.

    Gaming is where kids get interested in computers and graphics and so on- it is an entry point and much more so than any middle aged teacher standing up and explaining how big computers used to be in the 70's.
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