Ireland's Education ratings plummet, in PISA International Rankings

[gatsbygirl20]

It is true that there are lazy teachers who refuse to correct essays or homework of any kind. But, it appears that NOTHING can be done to remove them or even caution them without going through many layers of bureaucracy and ending up frustrated, in the same place. I agree that some of the issues mentioned by the teacher, are PARTLY responsible for our poor standard of education.
As schools are used as babysitting facilities for working parents, isn't it time the unions stood up and shouted stop.
While teachers accept the role of parent rather than teacher, then the obvious result is a weakening in the education system.
UNIONS, get your act together before it is too late and, as I said in a previous comment , we end up with a country of illiterates.

No, parents are not using schools as "babysitting facilities" (maybe a tiny minority are) and teachers are not refusing to "correct essays" (maybe a tiny minority are)

I have been in the system a long, long time, and I have found that most parents of all social classes are caring, engaged, worried about their kids, doing their best under tough constraints, some not coping as perfectly as we would all like. But dealing with kids is a tough gig and always seems easier when you're on the outside looking in. .

Ditto with the teachers.

The "unions" are made up of teachers, many of whom are parents themselves, and who understand all this.

Why would teachers be "shouting stop"?

Teachers have a pastoral role as well as an educational one. They willingly take on the in loco parentis role. It is part of what they signed up for.

If my family was in crisis---bereavement, suicide, addiction---I would hope that the school would look out for my child, support him ,warn me if he was not coping, be understanding if I was not being the perfect parent under the trying circumstances I was enduring.....

It's life and life only.....It can be made better, but while human beings are at the heart of it, it will never be perfect....

[TommyO'Brien]

Our education system has been in decline for a number of decades in the areas of literacy and numeracy. Their are numerous reasons - many of which have been touched on, such as the growing number of new Irish children with limited English knowledge, the impact of computers and the internet on attention span, etc.

Another area worth mentioning is how modern society equates success with fame, and fame with celebrity devoid of achievement. So children grow up in a society that treats are success Z list nobodies and holds them up as role models. We live in a world where where the only talent displayed by Jade Goody (RIP) was to show how dumb she was; where rubbish like TOWIE is idolised, and where achievement is seen in terms of being on TV, not possessing skills, for many.

There is however another significant problem. In the last quarter of the 20th century our education system moved from what were seen as 'old fashioned' to modern theories. The trouble with the new curricula is that so many of them have proven to have been disasters.

English used to be thought in building block style. In other words you were taught how to assemble a sentence as if you were building something. Emphasis was placed on accuracy, clarity, spelling and comprehensibility. That was moved away from to a new system which was less structured. Unfortunately the new system is producing vast numbers of people who lack the basic knowledge required. When I was in college I was a tutor to second years. By then the students who had gone through the new English course were starting to enter third level. Colleges were aghast. They had honours students who were barely able to construct coherent sentences. Lecturers back then began quite seriously wondering if the college should start introducing remedial classes - to teach students the sort of basic information about how to communicate that people should have received in primary school.

It was brought home to me with one woman in my group. It was obvious she knew her stuff when you spoke to her. 5% of the marks went for a series of 8 essays that had to be submitted. She submitted her eight essays to me. I couldn't make head or tail of them. I asked another tutor to look at one of them. He was appalled, wondering how did that woman even get out of primary level with that lack of knowledge of basic English. I didn't want to fail her so went to the head of department. He read two of her essays. He asked me were all her essays like that. I said they were. He responded by saying that there was no option then but to fail her.

I heard afterwards that she failed second year and had to re-do it. I don't know if she got the third year - I had left college by then. I did hear that she had had to sit first year twice also. The problem wasn't her knowledge. It was that the standard of education in English she had received left her chronically incapable of expressing in writing the knowledge she had. Back then we had to pay fees. So over two years she had to pay two years' fees and re-sit fees, all because the standard of English she received in primary school was so poor she could not communicate.

Lectures have told me since that it is much worse. They reckon half the failures in their areas are entirely due to the lack of ability of students to use basic English. If they don't use basic English the lecturer cannot understand what they are trying to say. So he or she cannot then assess whether they know information or not.

The standard of Maths in this country too is shocking. Shop owners are frustrated by the chronic lack of maths skills among staff. Most tills today are programmed with prices. But you have to enter into the prices when the book or whatever is first delivered. Maths skills are important for spotting basic errors where the wrong price was entered from the wholesaler. Last year I was in a shop where I bought two things. The total on the tills was ridiculous. It was obvious to me, and to the person with me, that there was an error. I pointed out the error. It was a whopping error, the equivalent of adding 1 to 2 and getting 7. The guy should have spotted it immediately. When I pointed it out he tried to do the maths on a piece of paper to check he couldn't do the addition right. By then my friend and I was incredulous. When we were in school we were taught addition in 1st class. He called over another staff member, who looked blankly at the mistake and didn't recognise it either. Eventually the manager came over, spotted it immediately, realised someone had put the wrong number into the original wholesaler order and fixed it.

He was apologetic but said it was the same problem all over (which I had heard elsewhere from someone who runs a bookshop). Whatever way Maths is now being taught leaves people with no concept of ratios of numbers. So they don't spot errors. He blamed calculators - so do I. When I was in school calculators were banned. You had to be able to do mathematical calculations if possible in your head, of not on a piece of papers. We would be set complex calculations. So most of my generation are reasonably fluent in Maths. But the modern Maths syllabus by allowing use of calculators means even basic maths is now done electronically. That means that people miss out on getting a concept of ratios. So even if my generation cannot do a particular calculation without using a pen and a piece of paper, we have enough of a concept of numbers to know that some number thrown up on a till cannot be right.

So the problem boils down to basics. English and Maths were taught until recent times in a building block manner. So people got a sense of what was needed, and relationships between things. The modern curriculum doesn't seem to offer that. So a lot of people come out of school confused about the basics. That puts them at a disadvantage later on.

[mayoonmymind]

"because teachers will not take the time to correct them."? a silly, uninformed, petty comment

Uninformed ? Hardly. Having spent many years teaching, I would hardly be classed as uninformed. Perhaps you know something that I do not. However, making silly, personal remarks tends to debase the debate to a level at which you obviously feel comfortable.
Enjoy.

[king5494]

I'm reasonably good at Math and English with two young primary children. I help my children doing both for their homework but this new way of doing these core subjects is chaotic and unstructured. Why did these fools change the syllabus to the point that the teachers now agree with me when consulted about the confusing way of teaching.

Maths is Maths and English is will always be English. Why does the Dept of Education keep trying to reinvent the wheel. I now resort to teaching the children the way I was taught which they comprehend very easily.

Fools!

[asknoquestions]

The guy should have spotted it immediately. When I pointed it out he tried to do the maths on a piece of paper to check he couldn't do the addition right.

lateral thinking FAIL. He should have used the calculator on his phone. I blame the education system's technophobia.

[TommyO'Brien]

I'm reasonably good at Math and English with two young primary children. I help my children doing both for their homework but this new way of doing these core subjects is chaotic and unstructured. Why did these fools change the syllabus to the point that the teachers now agree with me when consulted about the confusing way of teaching.

Maths is Maths and English is will always be English. Why does the Dept of Education keep trying to reinvent the wheel. I now resort to teaching the children the way I was taught which they comprehend very easily.

Fools!

Dead right.

My nephew was struggling with a basic part of English - he is in primary. He just couldn't get it. He didn't understand how to do write a particular thing. So I showed him the way I had been told in the 1970s. He said "its so easy" once he had been shown how to do it. He didn't know why his teacher didn't use that way. He had been struggling for a while. The teacher told his Christmas that he has gone from being a bit behind to being ahead of everyone else. She didn't what had happened.

What had happened was dead simple. He couldn't make head or tail of the way he was being taught - not her fault. It is the fault of the curriculum. When it was broken down for him to bits he suddenly understood what was happening. He called what I taught him 'Lego English' - learning to put bits together.

So the problem wasn't with him (or his teacher - she is really good) but that damn curriculum. Once he could comprehend what was happening there was no stopping him. But the current curriculum simply confuses him. The teacher admits the curriculum is useless but she is not allowed to change it. Her predecessor knew both curricula and when she could see the new one wasn't working used the old one. She retired two years ago. The new teacher never learnt to teach the old curriculum. She herself was taught using the new one.

[Dillinger]

But I thought we had some of the best teachers in the World?

They are too busy looking after their property portfolios.