Quinn Refuses to rule out further pain for 3rd level students.

[Nicky O Donnell]

From today's indo.

Education minister refuses to rule out third level fees – again - Latest News, Education - Independent.ie

And there was a very swift statement from the USI in response to this here.

Quinn Must Not Renege On College Fees Pledge Usi

In February Quinn actually promised that Labour would reverse the €500 increase introduced in the last budget by FF.

The €500 increase is the Student Services Charge is a step too far for students and their families at a time when we should be encouraging people into education rather than erecting barriers to prevent them, and will reverse this measure at the earliest opportunity

It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone really that he didn't follow through with that commitment, nor should it surprise anyone that a party that committed itself to the finance plan wouldn't hold back with further attacks on the education budget.

However, Quinn signed a pledge with the USI pre-election that Labour would not re-introduce fees. Following this the USI then encouraged their members to vote for the Labour Party.

They had been warned that this reeked of Lib-Dem style betrayal and that would appear to be exactly what will happen. Do the USI care? Not an iota.

In a lobbying document presented to the Oireachtas in April the USI did NOT include the reversal of the €500 fee increase at all.

They also met with the minister a month ago regarding the ridiculous changes to the grant which will see many student losing €4000 if they don't move 45km from their college and this meeting was clearly a 'failure' since their members were given no feedback on it whatsoever and students on maintenance grants have already received notification of the impending changes.

All we've had from the USI is empty rhetoric with no substance, no success, no concessions given from the government. They have no concrete plan to overturn the attacks against their members. Their plan is to keep pulling the wool over our eyes for as long as they can get away with it. Hopefully not for much longer.

Not surprisingly at all, the USI recently elected Colm Murphy of Fine Gael as deputy to Redmond (formerly of FF)

USI is committed to fighting for the right of everyone in Ireland to a world class education, a right based on one’s ability and not on one’s financial circumstances.

I think by "fight" what the USI means is having a love in with their favourite TDs at the Shelbourne Hotel.

Honestly USI. You really have no shame.

[seabhcan]

We currently have fees and it looks unlikely that's going to change soon. I disagree with fees - but the money isn't there to remove them.

However - the current payment system - where fees are upfront - is the worst of all worlds. The UK or Australian system would actually be an improvement, even if the notional total for the fees was higher.

We should also look at removing fees for qualifications the economy lacks - IT, science, languages, etc.

[Stating the Obvious]

Quinn Refuses to rule out further pain for 3rd level students.

I presume you mean "for the parents of 3rd level students"?

The notion that 3rd level education - a very expensive boost up the social ladder - should be 100% free to all is beyond ridiculous, particularly in a bankrupt State which can barely afford to refurbish primary schools.

The only thing that is more laughable is the "campaigning" on 3rd level fees issue by Socialist Workers Party hypocrites - most of whom were funded right through 3rd level out of Mummy and Daddy's deep South-Dublin pockets.

Most SWP hacks wouldn't have an iota about what it is like to struggle to fund yourself through third level

[Nicky O Donnell]

We currently have fees and it looks unlikely that's going to change soon. I disagree with fees - but the money isn't there to remove them.

However - the current payment system - where fees are upfront - is the worst of all worlds. The UK or Australian system would actually be an improvement, even if the notional total for the fees was higher.

We should also look at removing fees for qualifications the economy lacks - IT, science, languages, etc.

Nothing has changed since before Labour were elected so clearly your party made false promises to increase the student vote.

The Australian/NZ system is a disaster and has created an entire debt generation. In the last decade personal debt among 20-30 year olds in Australia has increased by billions of dollars as a result of leaving college with a ball and chain owned by private banks hanging around their necks.

The idea of making certain courses free and other courses fee paying is absolutely ludicrous for reasons I shouldn't even need to go into.

"The money isn't there". What exactly is the difference between your party and FF/FG at this point? The 25 million spent on the recent state visit would have paid the fee increase for 50,000 students. There is always plenty of cash for bondholders, bank directors and 'indebted' property developers getting 250K a year from NAMA, but nothing for the vulnerable who already have nothing to give.

What you are doing is attempting to solve the problem through the creation of more personal debt.

That will not work.

[seabhcan]

Most SWP hacks wouldn't have an iota about what it is like to struggle to fund yourself through third level

No one should ever have to work during full time education to fund fees. It should be either free (ie. paid by tax) or repayed after graduation.

The fee structure should also include discounts for socially and economically important qualifications. A purely economic cost system would mean even more people doing pointless-and-cheap courses, and fewer doing expensive degrees like science.

[Nicky O Donnell]

I presume you mean "for the parents of 3rd level students"?

The notion that 3rd level education - a very expensive boost up the social ladder - should be 100% free to all is beyond ridiculous, particularly in a bankrupt State which can barely afford to refurbish primary schools.

The only thing that is more laughable is the "campaigning" on 3rd level fees issue by Socialist Workers Party hypocrites - most of whom were funded right through 3rd level out of Mummy and Daddy's deep South-Dublin pockets.

Most SWP hacks wouldn't have an iota about what it is like to struggle to fund yourself through third level

Graduates pay 70% more tax throughout their lifetime than people that don't go to college. It is not in the government interest to create a system where students are deterred from getting an education and that is what is happening.

How is the government going to create their so called "smart economy"? How will they create employment if we prevent people from getting sufficiently qualified?

This thread is about broken promises both from Labour and the USI. It is not a debate about whether or not education should be free. This has been debated at length a million times over on this site and there is no point going down that road again.

With regard to "parents" paying fees. I'm a mature student returning to college and I saved to pay full fees for my first first two years. In some colleges 12.5% of students are mature (over 23). Many have lost their jobs in the last few years and are trying to up-skill themselves to get a better chance of re-employment. Many in my college ARE parents.

"Mommy and Daddy" don't even come into the equation for many, but for those that do, some have parents that have lost their jobs or taken huge pay cuts. There was an article in a local Kerry paper last year that revealed many students in the region with parents that were previously self employed but are now in debt don't qualify for grants and are relying on St Vincent De Paul to get them through college.

I know one woman who worked all her life to pay for her own children to go through college. Now that they've gotten their degrees she feels its her turn and why shouldn't she, but now the government are putting as many obstacles in front of her as possible.

[salman]

I presume you mean "for the parents of 3rd level students"?

The notion that 3rd level education - a very expensive boost up the social ladder - should be 100% free to all is beyond ridiculous, particularly in a bankrupt State which can barely afford to refurbish primary schools.

The only thing that is more laughable is the "campaigning" on 3rd level fees issue by Socialist Workers Party hypocrites - most of whom were funded right through 3rd level out of Mummy and Daddy's deep South-Dublin pockets.

Most SWP hacks wouldn't have an iota about what it is like to struggle to fund yourself through third level

Jaysus,do you think that all socialist types (the ones who think that all children should have the same access to third level) are RICH and that they mostly live in South Dublin?

[salman]

Graduates pay 70% more tax throughout their lifetime than people that don't go to college. It is not in the government interest to create a system where students are deterred from getting an education and that is what is happening.

How is the government going to create their so called "smart economy"? How will they create employment if we prevent people from getting sufficiently qualified?

This thread is about broken promises both from Labour and the USI. It is not a debate about whether or not education should be free. This has been debated at length a million times over on this site and there is no point going down that road again.

With regard to "parents" paying fees. I'm a mature student returning to college and I saved to pay full fees for my first first two years. In some colleges 12.5% of students are mature (over 23). Many have lost their jobs in the last few years and are trying to up-skill themselves to get a better chance of re-employment. Many in my college ARE parents.

"Mommy and Daddy" don't even come into the equation for many, but for those that do, some have parents that have lost their jobs or taken huge pay cuts. There was an article in a local Kerry paper last year that revealed many students in the region with parents that were previously self employed but are now in debt don't qualify for grants and are relying on St Vincent De Paul to get them through college.

I know one woman who worked all her life to pay for her own children to go through college. Now that they've gotten their degrees she feels its her turn and why shouldn't she, but now the government are putting as many obstacles in front of her as possible.

Well said ,there is a huge amount of ignorance on this thread

[hammer]

Whilst you continue to pay outrageous salaries to University staff FEES WILL INCREASE.

It will only be the well off eventually that will be able to afford to send their kids to University.

Smart Economy is pure spin anyway as every other country in the developed world has the same bleedin... idea.

[Hooch]

If a family can afford to send their kids to a private school then they can afford to pay 3rd level fees. Isn't there some way of means testing this?