Stephen Hawking: God was not needed to create the Universe

[The Field Marshal]

Sometimes things just happen, there could have been a world before us we dont even know about but I think what is important here is that physics doesnt understand the principles of the big bang while religion will just come up with any old tosh to fill the gaps. Its a bit like ad lib religion. God did _______ (fill in the blanks).

So things just happen.
Right.
Things just do happen.

I would have thought the cause as to why the universe just happened was kind of important.

Not to fluffykontbiscuits it seems

[Sailor]

And your answer is not to explain anything

Not only that but you revel in your ignorence.
Its not a scientific issue at all.
Science is not even equipped to answer this philosophical question.

Account for the fact of existence itself if you can.
Twittering on about big bang,quantum theory,string theory and other scienctific theories is all just a waste of time.

The fundamental question as to why anything at all exists when it might as well not have existed is being conveniently ignored by you and the rest of the lazy brigade.

To say "I don't know" and continue to search for more knowledge does not add up to revelling in ignorance. To assume one answer with no evidence or proof to support that answer is a deliberate abandonment of that search and if adopted a few hundred years ago would have left us wallowing in the dark ages. Fancy surgery without anaesthetic?

[Sailor]

It's no more lazy than saying "it just happened spontaneously".
And you can't pursue the matter scientifically, science requires measurement, measurement requires substance, substance requires existence in this universe, which requires this universe.



Sorry, I think you missed my point. If there is no universe, nothing, there is no energy, at all, negative or positive (?!?). To say the universe sprang out of nothing is to say that energy was created.

I'm not saying it just happened spontaneously - if you read my earlier post where I highlighted the difference between a classical vacuum and a quantum vacuum you would have understood this.

[Master Debater]

How the hell does he know ? Was he there at the time ?

[Sailor]

How the hell does he know ? Was he there at the time ?

The Big Bang is the best theory around at the moment and there is also good observational evidence to support it. However nobody is saying it's perfect and that it won't be modified or completely replaced. That is what science is all about.

[fluffykontbiscuits]

So things just happen.
Right.
Things just do happen.

I would have thought the cause as to why the universe just happened was kind of important.

Not to fluffykontbiscuits it seems

Things do just happen, random events are what caused us to become human beings for example. We understand the mechanics now behind it as evolution and genetics. We just have to understand the principles behind the big bang as in what was there before it, all that we need is a few theories as to how it happened and try and re create the conditions if possible

[dalywise]

I find it odd that Hawking says the laws of physics would inevitably bring about the universe. Physicists keep telling us there were no laws before the big bang because there was nothing at all before it. Not even time. How could the laws suddenly develop to make the whole thing kick off. I'm beginningh to think that physicsts are like Irish bank economists - they know nothing and perpetually chance their arms.

[Akrasia]

“Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the Universe exists, why we exist.”

This statement seems flawed at a really basic level. The first law of thermodynamics says "Energy can be neither created nor destroyed. It can only change forms." The law of gravity describes how objects with mass interact with each other. No universe, no mass, no law of gravity?

"The god squad" have a fair amount of reason to squawk on this one, what he's suggesting seems to go against the fundamental laws of physics. You really need a lot of faith to just take his word for it.

So you know more about the fundamental laws of physics than Stephen Hawking?

People aren't just taking his word for it, he explains his reasoning in his book, and no doubt provides his calculations so that other people can verify them, and more importantly, build upon them.

If you can find a significant group of theoretical phsicists who think Hawking is wrong and his theory violates the fundamental laws of physics, then it could be a very interesting debate. If you are just basing your objection on what it seems like to you, i'm assuming someone with no expertise on the subject, then you are not in a position to just declare that one of the greatest scientific thinkers of modern times is wrong about the basiscs of his science.

[fluffykontbiscuits]

I find it odd that Hawking says the laws of physics would inevitably bring about the universe. Physicists keep telling us there were no laws before the big bang because there was nothing at all before it. Not even time. How could the laws suddenly develop to make the whole thing kick off. I'm beginningh to think that physicsts are like Irish bank economists - they know nothing and perpetually chance their arms.

Or there could have been some other law of physics we were not aware of..? Good point though daly!

[imokyrok]

Basically it all comes down to the fact that anything science has yet to explain ends up with a "god did it" explanation.- And as we all know that is shrinking all the time. We also know that it is a theory which ultimately fails the question it purports to answer because always when you state that the universe could not have come from nothing one has to face the same problem in relation to God itself.

Whatever about calling that which we still fail to understand "God" and continuing to believe in a deistic entity, essence, energy - call it what you will would posters not agree that believing in a theistic god figure is truly ridiculous at this stage of human existence. The idea of a personal god who requires us to worship him and who watches our every act and thought is so off the wall, not to mention arrogant that it's impossible to understand how anyone with a good standard of education in say biology and cosmology could possibly give it credence.